The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

1. Questions to the First Minister

Good afternoon and welcome to this Plenary session. The first item this afternoon is questions to the First Minister, and I've received notification under Standing Order 12.58 that the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd, will answer questions on behalf of the First Minister this afternoon. The first question is from Jayne Bryant.

Anti-social Behaviour

Jayne Bryant AC: 1. What is the Welsh Government doing to tackle anti-social behaviour? OQ58463

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. While policing is a reserved matter currently, we are committed to continuing to do all we can to help reduce anti-social behaviour, working closely with the Home Office on this. We are currently funding 600 police community support officers to help keep people and communities safe across Wales.

Jayne Bryant AC: Thank you for that answer, Minister. Anti-social behaviour is unfortunately a blight on many communities across Wales and across the rest of the UK. It can range from small-scale issues, which can really grind people down, to daily occurrences that can make people's lives an absolute misery. Residents are understandably frustrated and worried when these occurrences often lead to blatant criminality, such as the use of off-road or electric bikes to either deliver or deal in drugs. This can happen at any time of the day and in plain sight of people of all ages, including children.
I was extremely pleased that the UK Labour conference and UK Labour dedicated their first day at that conference to justice, committing to restoring neighbourhood policing and tackling the root causes of offending, a stark contrast to the new Truss Government, whose priority seems to be making the rich richer and tanking the UK economy. While understanding that the Welsh Government doesn't have all the levers in place to tackle this, and until we see a Labour Government in place at a UK level, what can we do in Wales to support the police and communities to root out anti-social behaviourso that people can feel safe in the communities that they call home?

Lesley Griffiths AC: I think Jayne Bryant makes a really important point, and I know, as an MS, our postbags often have a lot of constituents who are very concerned about what maybe you would call 'low-level' anti-social behaviour. Everybody has the right to peace and quiet in their own homes, and you've just raised an important issue around communities also. And I think, of course, our communities are generally a great place to live, aren't they, but anti-social behaviour can make victims' lives a misery.
I mentioned that enforcement and policing are reserved matters, and, obviously, the Minister for Social Justice works very closely with the Home Office. But, of course, the police are only one part of the problem, and many of the drivers that impact on community safety are devolved, and the Minister and the Government are very determined to do everything in our power to make the people of Wales feel safe.
I mentioned in my opening answer that we maintained the funding for 500 police community support officers, and we've also increased their number by 100 over this term of Government. But I think the Minister for Social Justice also takes a partnership approach, and it's really important that that effective partnership does help us tackle anti-social behaviour.

Peter Fox AS: I thank the Member for Newport West for raising the issue. As has been said, anti-social behaviour can have a negative impact, and it does have a negative impact on the quality of life of our communities. At best it's a nuisance, and at worst it's threatening and disruptive towards people and property. ASB has been a particular issue within Monmouthshire council area recently, and Caldicottown centre, whilst it's not in my constituency but borders my constituency, has been the subject of two dispersal orders over the past two weeks. It affects my community as it does John Griffiths's.
One way of reducing incidents of ASB is to ensure that people feel fully included within their local areas and believe that their voice is being heard, whilst it's also important that people are confident that their complaints will be acted upon by the police. Minister, how is the Welsh Government working with councils and local organisations to promote community inclusion, such as community projects that bring people together as well as improving facilities to enhance opportunities for local people? And how are you working with the police to help make it easier for people to report anti-social behaviour to help prevent incidents from escalating further? Thank you.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. You mentioned having dispersal orders—I think you said just outside your constituency. Obviously, that's a matter for police operations, but it certainly underlines the importance of the preventative approach that we as a Government take to anti-social behaviour.
I mentioned that the Minister for Social Justice absolutely has that partnership approach in everything she does around this agenda, and that includes working with local authorities and any other partner who can help us in this fight against anti-social behaviour.

Rhys ab Owen AS: Thank you very much, Trefnydd, for your answers. The problem with this issue is that we don't have the tools here in the Senedd to deal with it. I very much hope that the First Minister, when Liz Truss does phone him eventually, says clearly to her, and to Keir Starmer, that we need to devolve justice to Wales to get to the core of these issues. I also hope that he will take the opportunity to tell the Prime Minister that the Public Order Bill, which prevents legal protests, is a disgrace. I'm sure, Trefnydd, that you would agree with me that it's important for all of us as politicians to listen when people do protest—what is the core reason for the protest—rather than trying to stop protests from happening in the first place.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Absolutely. Everybody has the right to peaceful protest, and I hear what you say around the devolution of justice. Obviously, that is something that is being discussed at the current time. The Public Order Bill, I think, now has been delayed. Certainly, we will not be bringing an LCM forward to the Senedd at the current time.

Ken Skates AC: Can I also thank Jayne Bryant for raising this important issue today? Trefnydd, I was in Coedpoeth, a community that you're familiar with, very recently, on patrol for a full morning with the local police there. I was astonished by just how much they know about the communities that we serve and the people that live in them. Would you join with me in thanking all of our police forces, and in particular those community support officers that do so much to contain and limit anti-social behaviour across Wales?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. Yes, I absolutely would join with you in commending the work that they do. They're very visible on the streets of our villages, and, obviously, I know Coedpoeth very well. I think the reason that we brought forward the funding for another 100 PCSOs, plugging Home Office gaps, shall we say, was in relation to making sure that that support is on our streets, making people feel safer.

Physics Teachers

Joel James MS: 2. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the number of physics teachers? OQ58442

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. We continually assess the numbers of physics teachers in post, and the numbers of appointments against posts advertised has remained relatively constant over the last five years. In 2020-21, an increase in overall recruitment to secondary initial teacher education programmes resulted in 36 per cent of new entrants studying to teach STEM subjects.

Joel James MS: Thank you, Minister. As you're aware, we are at crisis point with the education of science in Wales because of the lack of teachers in physics and chemistry. Wales now has so few physics teachers that there are not enough for every secondary school in Wales to have one, meaning that this science is almost predominantly being taught by teachers who have no qualifications in the subject area. The bursaries for physics and chemistry teachers are also low compared to England, meaning that potential teachers are moving to England to train and, because of the differences in curriculum, they almost never ever return to Wales. I am concerned that this situation could be described as a national embarrassment for Wales and a legacy that I'm sure you and this Government would not be proud of. There is overwhelming concern from the science community that this Government is failing science, failing students and is already down such a dark path of failure in the teaching of science that, in just a few years, we'll be unable to adequately teach this subject in Wales. With this in mind, Minister, and I'm conscious that you have all the levers and tools already, what action and commitment is this Welsh Government taking to seriously address this issue? Thank you.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Well, I don't recognise the picture that you're portraying. I certainly don't think physics teachers and the word 'crisis' go together, and I certainly don't think that the Minister for Education and Welsh Language would agree with you either. I think it's fair to say that the recruitment to ITE of students studying to teach physics does remain below our desired position, and ITE partnerships and the Education Workforce Council do have a programme—you asked what we're doing: they do have a programme—to encourage more entrants into ITE. We have a marketing strategy that targets those subjects that are more challenging for recruitment, and STEM subjects clearly is an area where activity is undertaken. I know that the Minister is also trying to identify students who are now in England at the moment, from Wales, to encourage them to come back to Wales to teach.

Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

Questions now from the party leaders. The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T. Davies.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Thank you, Presiding Officer. Minister, last week we had the waiting times out for the NHS in Wales. In north Wales, which you are the Minister directly responsible for, there are 15,000 people waiting two years or more for a procedure. Will you apologiseto those 15,000 people who are waiting such long times on the Welsh NHS?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Well, of course, we don't want anybody to be waiting for lengthy periods of time. If you're in pain and you need surgery, then obviously we want to get that surgery and those procedures as quickly as possible. You'll be aware the Minister for Health and Social Services has put significant funding into the NHS, and it includes the north Wales health board, Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board, to try and bring those numbers down and to sort out the backlog as well. But, a lot of that funding will unfortunately go on the energy crisis now.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Well, Minister, 'sorry' seems to be the hardest word when it comes to talking to the 15,000 people who are waiting two years or more within the NHS in north Wales. Let's offer you a second chance to say sorry: 25 per cent of the population in north Wales are on an NHS waiting list—25 per cent. Will you say 'sorry' to that 25 per cent?

Lesley Griffiths AC: I go back—it's not a matter of saying 'sorry', is it? It's about making sure that we are able to help the health board deliver the procedures and the surgery that are required as soon as possible. You make it sound as if it's only in Wales that we have waiting lists; of course we have waiting lists right across the UK. I appreciate we are looking at north Wales now and, as you're aware, Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board have had issues. We've put significant resources, both human and financial, into helping them with targeted intervention particularly. We're absolutely determined to tackle the backlog. I mentioned the funding that the Minister for Health and Social Services has put in. We are aware of how difficult it is for people who are waiting for a long time for treatment. We do continue to make progress to reduce the longest waits, and the number of patient pathways waiting more than two years did fall—I think it was the fourth consecutive month they've fallen. So, we are seeing some progress. It's now 14 per cent lower than the peak that we had in March this year.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Minister, on two occasions I offered you the opportunity to apologise to the citizens of north Wales, for which you have direct ministerial responsibility, and, indeed, you are a constituency Member for the town of Wrexham. It is a fact that other parts of the United Kingdom, not just England but Scotland, have all but wiped out the two-year waits. They have all but wiped out the two-year waits. In a press statement last week, the health Minister said she was breathing down the neck of health boards to try and get on top of the waiting times. Yet, we saw those waiting times nearly hit 750,000 episodes of care being waited for by the people of Wales. So, you've said that you're trying. What tangible efforts are you making to bring us in line with the other parts of the United Kingdom, that will see wiping out the two-year wait, progress on the 12-month wait, and, above all, the decline in the overall number of patients waiting within the NHS in Wales?

Lesley Griffiths AC: First of all, I represent the city of Wrexham, not the town of Wrexham.
It's not a matter of—. Of course we're sorry that people have to wait for a lengthy time. You paint this picture of the rest of the UK that just isn't true. I mentioned the significant funding that the Minister for Health and Social Services put in, I mentioned how we've seen a drop again for the fourth consecutive month, and you're just dismissing all of that. What we should be doing is praising the NHS for the fantastic work that they do. You know the challenging times the NHS have been in. Our staff have worked relentlessly during the COVID-19 pandemic. We're now asking them to do more again to try and look at the backlog. As I've mentioned, the Minister for Health and Social Services is supporting Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board specifically with targeted intervention.

The leader of Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.

Adam Price AC: Diolch, Llywydd. Rent is rising higher in Wales than anywhere else in the UK, except London. Rent in Cardiff alone has increased 36 per cent in just two years. A quarter of private tenants in Wales are worried they will lose their homes in the next three months. Shelter Cymru, echoed in England by the Kerslake commission on homelessness, are calling for the reintroduction of a temporary ban on evictions—evictions for arrears as well as no-fault evictions—that we saw during the pandemic to ensure that no-one is made homeless as a result of the cost-of-living crisis. Scotland is doing it and their competence mirrors ours. As a Government that says it is committed to ending homelessness, will you also ban evictions this winter in Wales?

Lesley Griffiths AC: You mentioned the policy that the Scottish Government are now bringing forward. I think I answered last week on behalf of the Minister for Climate Change to say that she will, obviously, look very carefully at it, but it is really important that we don't get unintended consequences from such a policy.
You mentioned what we did during the COVID-19 pandemic to protect people from evictions, and, again, it's something that the Minister will be looking at. But, you'll be aware of several pieces of legislation that Welsh Government are bringing forward—the renting homes Act, which will be introduced in December, will provide six months' notice for all new tenants, for instance, where they're not at fault. So, there is a great deal of work going on in relation to support for tenants.

Adam Price AC: In an emergency, we as a Senedd need to be able to pass emergency legislation; we can sit at weekends, if necessary, to do this. The Scottish Government has also announced a rent freeze at least until the end of March next year. Sadiq Khan, as Mayor of London, has asked for the power to introduce a rent freeze there. We have that power already in Wales, and since social housing rent won't increase anyway until 1 April, a rent freeze over the winter won't cost the Welsh Government a penny; it's focused on the private sector. Even Conservative MPs like Natalie Elphicke, a former chief executive of the Housing and Finance Institute, are making the case for a private sector rent freeze, arguing that there is no justification for the excessive rent hikes in recent times. Now, we prevent that in future through the system of fair rents that we outline in the co-operation agreement, but the choice that we're facing in Wales now this winter is between freezing rents or freezing people. So, will the Welsh Government act to introduce a rent freeze as the Scottish Government have done?

Lesley Griffiths AC: As I said, the Minister for Climate Change, who obviously has responsibility for housing, is currently considering the maximum social rent increases, for instance, in Wales, and an announcement will be made in due course. I'm not here to make up housing policy on the hoof, but I'm obviously aware that the Minister is looking very closely at what the Scottish Government have done. But it is important that you don't then suddenly get landlords taking houses for rent off the market, and having those unintended consequences.

Adam Price AC: People are facing this cost-of-living crisis now, aren't they, so we need a sense of urgency. A rent freeze, it's practical, it's necessary, but it's not radical or new—even the Heath Conservative Government did it in 1972 when we were last facing a period of stagflation. Harold Wilson, again, did it when Labour was elected in 1974. If the centre-right and centre-left of British politics could do it 50 years ago, then surely this Senedd should have the same sense of urgency and agency now. We shielded the vulnerable during COVID and now we must do the same again.
Now, alongside a rent freeze, can you also give immediate urgent consideration to establishing a mortgage rescue service for all those who are going to be affected by the rise in interest rates so far and the further rise that is anticipated? The One Wales Government in 2008 was the first Government in the UK to introduce such a policy, and it managed to save many, many families from losing their homes.

Lesley Griffiths AC: I think you make a very important point around mortgages. The role of Government, I think, is to have very careful stewardship of our taxes and of our money, and, certainly, it's a very reckless approach that the UK Government are taking, and we've seen the headlines today around mortgages. I haven't had the opportunity to discuss with the Minister for Climate Change anything around a mortgage rescue scheme. But you know that, as a Government, we're doing all that we can with the levers that we have to help people in the here and now in relation to the cost-of-living crisis, because, as you say, it is happening now and we need to look at ways of supporting the people of Wales. But I'm sure it's something that the Minister will have a look at.

Glan Lash Opencast Coal Mine

Jane Dodds AS: 3. Will the First Minister provide an update on the application to extend the extraction licence at Glan Lash opencast coal mine? OQ58453

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. I am aware that a planning application has been submitted to Carmarthenshire County Council for an extension of mining at Glan Lash. At the current time, Welsh Government has not been asked to consider any extension of the corresponding Coal Authority licence authorisation. Should an application be made, we will consider it against our stated policy.

Jane Dodds AS: Diolch, Trefnydd. The interesting thing with Glan Lash is that an independent planning ecology report commissioned by Carmarthenshire County Council has recommended rejecting the application on the basis that it does not fulfil the council's duty to maintain and enhance biodiversity. They reference laws made by this Senedd. So, which is right, given the possible planning applications around the extension of Aberpergwm, and the Welsh Government's assertion that it has no grounds to intervene on the application? Because, surely, none of us want any more coal. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. I am aware that both Natural Resources Wales and the planning authority's ecology officer have raised concerns regarding the proposed development, and those concerns are going to be considered, I understand, by the planning committee in due course. We have a notification direction in place that states:
'where a local planning authority does not propose to refuse an application for coal and petroleum development, the authority must notify the Welsh Ministers.'
I think there's a bit of difference here. So, Glan Lash is currently within the planning regime, but Aberpergwm already has planning permission in place, so that's now being considered within the entirely separate Coal Authority licensing regime. So, the planning regime and the Coal Authority licensing place very different duties on Welsh Ministers, and the devolved executive functions are triggered by very different criteria, so I think that's the difference between the two.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: I believe that Bryn Bach Coal Limited has applied to Carmarthenshire County Council for permission to mine by surface mining operations 110,000 tonnes of premium-quality anthracite from the proposed Glan Lash extension. Having checked on their website, the county council's website, I note that the application was received on 29 November 2019. So, it was a sensible question to ask about what is happening here, when, three years on, a decision still has not been made. I certainly trust that the planning authority will base their resolution on planning policy.
Now, the reality is, whether we like it or not, there is a demand for coal in Wales, and in the UK, 7.3 million tonnes was used in 2021. In fact, the UK imported 4.6 million tonnes just last year. So, what action are you and your Government taking to ensure that, by pursuing our net-zero goals and ambitions, Wales is not going to become even more dependent on coal that is being imported? Thank you.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. Well, as you know, our policy objective is to avoid the continued extraction and consumption of all fossil fuels; to bring to a managed end the extraction and use of coal; and to ensure that just transition that we need for those employees and communities who would be affected by the change. We know that if we extend existing coaling in Wales, it would just have such a significant effect on our legally binding—I should remind you, legally binding; there's no point pulling a face—it's a legally binding carbon budget. It would also have an effect on the UK's legally binding carbon budgets as well, because, obviously, what we do in Wales has an impact on the rest of the UK and vice versa.

UK COVID-19 Inquiry

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: 4. Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's role in the UK COVID-19 inquiry? OQ58457

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. Welsh Government had a direct role in setting the terms of reference for the UK COVID-19 inquiry. Now the inquiry is formally established, the Welsh Government will be supplying significant evidence to it, to enable action taken in Wales to be properly scrutinised.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: Thank you. And the First Minister confirmed in a letter on 15 September that the Welsh Government had asked to be a core contributor to the first module of the consultation. We should have a separate public inquiry for Wales, of course, and my concern is that the Welsh Government sees its role as being a contributor when I want the Welsh Government to be the subject of an inquiry.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: I really fear that we won't see the scrutiny of Welsh Government actions, good and bad, that Welsh people deserve. What we have, having refused a Welsh-specific inquiry, we see Ministers themselves commissioning community health councils to gather public opinion on the COVID response. There's the inquiry that Welsh Government has commissioned itself into hospital-acquired infections—pseudo inquiries 'with the Government marking its own homework,' as one campaigner told me. Does the Trefnydd agree with me that there's a very real danger here of Wales falling in between two stools?

Lesley Griffiths AC: No, I don't, and I think the First Minister has made it very clear why he thinks we should be part of the UK-wide inquiry. We've now applied to be a core participant, not just in module 1, but also in module 2. You refer to community health councils—well, I think it's incorrect to imply that community health councils are conducting the survey that they're doing for Welsh Government's benefit. I think that the First Minister has made it very clear and he was very keen to ensure that people across Wales were able to share their experiences with the inquiry, and this is just one vehicle in which to do so. I know that community health councils have been gathering the views and experiences of people across Wales in relation to the pandemic, with the intention of sharing it directly with the COVID-19 inquiry, and obviously, how that information is then treated by the inquiry would be a matter for the chair.

Sam Rowlands MS: Thank you, Minister, for your initial response there. It is a sad fact, isn't it, that Wales has the highest COVID-19 death rate across the United Kingdom. Regretfully, throughout the pandemic, lives were torn apart and our everyday normal way of living was completely transformed. I'm sure that you'll agree, Minister, here today, when it comes to great power and great decision making, great responsibility and accountability must also take place. It's only right that the actions of the Welsh Government during the pandemic are properly scrutinised and properly communicated to the people of Wales. Despite this, Minister, the COVID-19 bereaved families for justice group recently said, and I quote,
'We know how @WelshGovernment and @PrifWeinidog have turned their backs on us'.
And,
'You have done nothing for bereaved families in Wales. Still no answers, no lessons learned, nothing'.
So, in light of this, Minister, what is the Welsh Government's response to that statement by the COVID-19 bereaved families for justice group, and what action is being taken to ensure that people in Wales get the answers that they, their families, and their friends deserve?

Lesley Griffiths AC: I think you're right in saying that the pandemic absolutely changed the way we all lived; every single one of us was affected by the pandemic. I don't think it's fair to say that no lessons were learned; I think we learned lessons as we went on. Certainly, being a member of the Government, I recognise that we absolutely had the latest scientific advice and medical advice on a daily basis, and the Cabinet met many, many times to discuss the advice. So, I think it's unfair to say that no lessons have been learned, because I think that we did that during the pandemic.
You'll be aware that the First Minister regularly meets with the group. I think he said last week that he'd met just earlier either this month or certainly in August with them again. So, I'm sure that the First Minister will continue to meet with them, as and when required.

Ken Skates AC: Can I also thank Rhun ap Iorwerth for tabling this important question? Of course, the inquiry will expose how effective or not communications were between Governments—the UK Government, Welsh Government and other Governments in the United Kingdom. But, of course, COVID has not gone away; we've not defeated COVID yet. I stand to be corrected by the health Minister, but I believe that right now, 1,000 members of the NHS are off work due to COVID. So, it's just as important now that governments are working together. So, would you agree with me that it's absolutely vital that the new Prime Minister goes above and beyond in communicating with Ministers here and across the United Kingdom to ensure that we can go on combating this terrible disease together?

Lesley Griffiths AC: It is really important that we continue to work together. I think it's very unfortunate that the Prime Minister hasn't picked up the phone to the First Minister. She's really got nothing to be afraid of, he's a very straightforward person to deal with. But, I think you make a really important point around COVID not going away. The figures that I've got are that an average of 10 patients are being admitted to hospital every day with COVID; seven ICU beds are occupied by patients with COVID every day; and, as you mentioned, nearly 1,000 staff are currently off with COVID. So, it's a good time to remind people that if they're called for their next COVID vaccination, please go along and do it. It's the best thing you can do to protect yourself and your family.

Sustainable Farming Scheme

Russell George AC: 5. How will the sustainable farming scheme benefit farmers in mid Wales? OQ58465

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. The proposed sustainable farming scheme will support farmers across Wales to become more resilient and produce food in a sustainable manner whilst addressing the challenges presented by the climate and nature emergencies. We are undertaking a range of analysis to inform scheme design, which includes regional and sectoral.

Russell George AC: Thank you for your answer, Minister. There have been various concerns raised around the 10 per cent tree-planting element of the scheme. The one specific area that I wanted to raise with you is that there are concerns that parts of farms will now be classed as woodland, which could mean that farmers will now be subject to inheritance tax. Now, as I've understood it, the sustainable farming scheme does not define what 'tree covering' includes, and therefore the relevance of current stipulations for agricultural relief isn't possible to determine. So, can I ask: was this issue considered in the design of the scheme? If not, why not? And how will this specific issue be addressed?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. So, I have had issues raised with me around that and it's certainly something we're looking at very closely. In relation to inheritance tax, yes, it was something that we looked at and we're still looking at as part of the design of the scheme. As you know, we're in the second stage of the co-design now. And obviously, inheritance tax is a non-devolved issue, so I've asked officials to work very closely with His Majesty's Revenue and Customsconcerning the scheme to make sure there are no unintended consequences, if you like.
As you say, agricultural property, some of it qualifies for agricultural relief, and that's land or pasture that is used to grow crops. So, it's very important, when we're looking at that 10 per cent of trees that we want to see each farm have, to share the load across Wales, that we don't create unintended consequences.

Water Quality

Samuel Kurtz MS: 6. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to improve water quality? OQ58424

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. Improving water quality is a priority for this Government. We are taking a long-term, integrated catchment approach focusing on multi-sector co-operation and nature-based solutions to drive improvement. Investment, such as metal mine remediation programme, legislative drivers, such as the Water Resources (Control of Agricultural Pollution) Regulations 2021, and a robust regulatory framework will help drive improvement across all our water bodies.

Samuel Kurtz MS: Thank you for your reply, Trefnydd.

Samuel Kurtz MS: The end of August saw sewage dumped into the water at Wiseman's Bridge in my constituency, resulting in the bathing water directive finding the water quality unacceptable. This pollution incident was one of a number across the south Pembrokeshire coast. Incidents such as this are often caused by combined sewage overflows, or CSOs. With water quality a fully devolved matter, completely within the control of this Welsh Government, what immediate action is your Government taking to ensure that bathers can swim in clean waters next summer?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Reducing impacts from storm overflows is absolutely a priority, and we need a cross-sectoralholistic approach to achieve that. What we are doing as a Government is focusing on sustainable, nature-based solutions to divert as much surface water away from the sewerage systems as possible. Reducing the number of CSO spills is but one of the levers that are needed to improve the quality of our rivers, and we've been very clear, and I set out in my opening answer to you, of all the things we’re doing to tackle that. Water companies now have to publish detailed information showing the length, duration and location of storm overflow discharges, and I think that's a good thing, because I think it's led to public awareness and more interest in it.

Carolyn Thomas AS: Minister, I was very grateful to hear that the First Minister reaffirmed the Welsh Government's commitment to the moratorium on fracking here in Wales. It shows the Welsh Labour Government's commitment and dedication to building a sustainable future, whilst protecting the health and properties of people in Wales. Unfortunately, border communities, like the ones I represent in north Wales, could still be impacted by fracking. In particular, contamination of the water quality is a serious threat. What representations will be made to the UK Government regarding concerns about water protection from fracking here in Wales?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. Well, the Welsh Government's made it very clear that fracking will not take place in Wales, and any fracking that takes places in England, if it crosses over the Welsh border, that would require a Welsh petroleum licence, planning and also environmental permits. And, obviously, we wouldn’t grant any licences that enabled this.
Water quality in Wales is continuously monitored, and, it if becomes evident that that fracking has any impact on this, we would expect the UK Government to act in accordance with regulations that were signed—I think it was probably about five years ago now—between the Welsh Government and the UK Government. We have an inter-governmental protocol. Because that was there—. That was put there to make sure there was no serious, adverse impact on our water resources, water supply or our water quality in England arising from any action or inaction.

Joyce Watson AC: In 2015, the UK environment Secretary, Liz Truss, boasted of cutting 34,000 farm inspections. It effectively allowed farmers in England to dump waste like pesticide and animal faeces directly into rivers, including the Wye valley, where research by Lancaster University found there were 3,000 tonnes of excess phosphorus, caused by agriculture, seeping into the valley's waterways. Do you agree with me, First Minister, that this gross negligence and its legacy of pollution that lapped at our shores this summer underlines why the Welsh Government was absolutely right to take an all-Wales approach to legislate against agricultural pollution? And are you able to update us on how the £40 million that your Government is investing over the next three years to tackle this issue will be targeted?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. Well, unfortunately, as you know, I didn't really want to bring those regulations forward. I don't think anybody likes being told what to do. But the voluntary approach hadn't worked, and I do think it was important we brought those regulations forward, which target activity known to cause pollution, wherever it takes place. So, I think that all-Wales approach is about a preventative action and not waiting for our water bodies to fail.
You asked specifically around the £40 million that we gave, I think over the next three years, to address other causes of water quality problems across Wales, and that funding is being used—again, I mentioned it in my opening answer to Sam Kurtz—in relation to remediating metal mines and restoring modifications to waterways.

Welsh Government Properties

Natasha Asghar AS: 7. How does the Welsh Government ensure that the properties it owns provide best value for the taxpayer? OQ58432

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. We have a clear policy and strategy for acquiring, managing and disposing of property assets. The principal aim is to maximise overall value from our assets. All potential transactions are scrutinised by experienced property professionals to ensure value for money and other public value outcomes are achieved.

Natasha Asghar AS: Thank you, Minister. I think a lot of people in this Chamber would be interested to know that I recently asked for a list of the land and properties bought by the Welsh Government to facilitate the building of the M4 relief road. In reply, I was told that 30 properties were bought, at a cost to the taxpayer of over £15 million. It is now more than three years since the M4 relief road project was scrapped. Since then, seven of those properties have been sold—three at a profit of £334,000. The other four were sold at a loss of a staggering £925,765. This is in addition to the £157 million spent by your Government on the project before it was cancelled, to the anger and dismay of motorists and businesses across Wales.FootnoteLink So, Minister, how do you explain the huge loss from the sale of these properties, and do you agree this is a clear demonstration of the scandalous disregard for obtaining the best value for taxpayers' money, as exhibited by your Government on numerous previous projects and occasions, such as the Circuit of Wales, Pinewood, Natural Resources Wales timber contracts, the overspend on the Head of the Valleys roads and the propping-up of Cardiff Airport?

Corresponence from Natasha Asghar

Lesley Griffiths AC: In the time it has taken you to ask me that question, I would imagine the interest on the debt being accrued by the UK Government would have paid for all those things. I don't have a list of the properties and assets that you just read out to me, but what I do know in relation to the M4 relief road is that our policy and strategy for the disposal of surplus property is clear that when it's no longer required—and obviously some of the properties that you referred to will no longer be required for the purpose that you set out—will be first offered to other departments and then our public sector partners before being marketed commercially. That does ensure we are delivering the best possible value against all policy areas.

Cost-of-living Crisis

Vikki Howells AC: 8. How is the Welsh Government supporting people in Cynon Valley affected by the cost-of-living crisis? OQ58427

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. As with the COVID-19 pandemic, the Welsh Government is prioritising activities that support vulnerable households in the here and now, to help them through this very difficult period. Citizens in Cynon Valley are benefiting from initiatives such as our cost-of-living payment, our fuel support scheme and our discretionary assistance fund.

Vikki Howells AC: Diolch, Trefnydd. Child poverty is an issue of great concern to me, and today I sponsored an event held by the National Education Union and the Child Poverty Action Group, who've been working together to highlight the impact of poverty on education. The Welsh Government's roll-out of free school meals to all primary pupils is welcomed by families across the Cynon valley and across Wales, as is the provision of free school meals during school holidays until February of next year, and the additional resource provided by the pupil development access grant. But with three in 10 pupils in Wales living in poverty, and these figures only set to rise with the cost-of-living crisis, and with the key levers to tackle poverty being non devolved, what would be your message to the UK Tory Government about the impact of their policy-making decisions on the next generation?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Well, we can see the turmoil of what the mini budget last Friday did. It's incredible the chaos that has been caused by Liz Truss, just a few days after moving into No. 10. I'm really pleased that you had the event, because clearly it's something that we need to raise awareness about, and tackling the impacts of child poverty is a priority for this Government and we will continue to support learners who are disadvantaged by poverty throughout their educational journey. You mentioned some of the initiatives that the Minister for education has brought forward; we're also clear no child should ever be hungry in school, and we've commenced the roll-out of universal primary free school meals. One of the figures—I was reading some figures while preparing for First Minister's questions today, and it was stating that absolute poverty is on track to rise by 3 million over the next two years and relative child poverty is projected to reach its highest level—33 per cent—in 2026-27, which I think is just so stark and shows where the UK Government could have given confidence in their mini budget last week but they declined to do so.

Social Care Staff Pay

Gareth Davies AS: 9. Will the First Minister provide an update on social care staff pay? OQ58428

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. The real living wage for social care workers remains a priority for the Welsh Government. The sector urgently needed support with recruitment and retention issues, exacerbated by challenges presented during the COVID-19 pandemic. We made £43 million available to local authorities and health boards for 2022-23 to deliver this support.

Gareth Davies AS: Thank you for that answer, Trefnydd. The reason I ask this question today is for the reason that we now have winter on the horizon, together with a cost-of-living crisis, and our social care workers are amongst some of the lowest-paid workers in the labour market, despite the dedication they give and the difference they make to people day in, day out. So, Trefnydd, with that in mind, are you willing to look at this again and commit your Government to spending an additional £9 million to align social care staff pay with NHS pay scales and provide them with assurances that the Welsh Government is on their side?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. As I said, £43 million of funding was made available to deliver our commitment to introduce the real living wage to social care workers. I think that's been very welcomed by the sector. The additional payment scheme for core social care staff, which was aligned to the introduction of the real living wage, made payments of £1,498 to over 63,000 social care workers across Wales in June, and that scheme marked our commitment to make further improvements to the terms and conditions and career pathways of social care workers. I absolutely agree: where would we be without our social care workers?
We've also got the social care fair work forum. That's a social partnership group in which trade unions, the employers and Welsh Government come together to look at how the working conditions of social care workers can be improved here in Wales. And in the short term the forum has focused its efforts on improvements to pay and has provided advice on how we could take forward the real living wage.

Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board

Darren Millar AC: 10. What assessment has the First Minister made of the progress made by Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board over the last 12 months? OQ58466

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. It's been a challenging year for the health board, and we've had serious concerns about quality, governance and performance, resulting in an increased escalation status to targeted intervention for vascular services and the Glan Clwyd Hospital site. The health board has responded swiftly and there are signs of improvement.

Darren Millar AC: Well, I haven't seen any signs of improvement, Minister. I'm very, very concerned about the parlous state of services for patients across north Wales, particularly those that are served by Glan Clwyd Hospital. But one of the other concerns that is ringing alarm bells in my inbox every single day is the appalling access to GP services in the Colwyn Bay area, particularly the Rhos-on-Sea area, which is served by both Rhoslan and Rysseldene surgeries, both of which are managed directly by the health board because the GP contracts have come to an end. Those two surgeries are not performing at a level that anybody in my constituency is happy with. There has been no improvement in terms of access over the past 12 months to appointments, particularly face-to-face appointments with GPs. There have regularly been problems with access to repeat prescriptions for those who are chronically ill, and, quite frankly, it's not good enough. When will we see the sort of healthcare that the people of north Wales need to see, and when will people served by those two managed practices in the Colwyn Bay and Rhos-on-Sea area get a primary care service that they can rely on?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Obviously, I don't have any knowledge of the two GP practices that you referred to. I do know from my own postbag in Wrexham that access to GP services is not where we would want it to be in north Wales. I know that the health board have just appointed a new—I'm not sure if it's a director but it's certainly an officer in relation to primary care, and I'm due to have a meeting with her to discuss issues in my constituency, and I would encourage you to do that, because I think if we are trying to avoid the increased number of people we're seeing in A&E because they can't get access to their GP services, then it is very important that the health board grasps this and deals with these difficulties.

Thank you, Trefnydd.

I'd love to see an agenda item on the Cabinet papers that was a tutorial by the Trefnydd on how to give succinct answers in oral questions. And then if that part of the bargain is kept to, I'll hold a tutorial on how to ask succinct questions by all backbenchers as well. Okay, that was 10 questions in 45 minutes. Da iawn.

2. Business Statement and Announcement

Item 2, then.

Back on again.

The Trefnydd back to make the business statement and announcement. Lesley Griffiths.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. There are three changes to today's Plenary agenda. I have added a statement from the finance and local government Minister on the response to the UK Government financial statement. Consequently, the statement on world heritage in north-west Wales has been postponed until next week. And finally, the legislative statement on the Agriculture (Wales) Bill has been moved to the last item of today's business. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

Altaf Hussain AS: Minister, Swansea Council together with the Welsh Government are planning to strengthen the sea defences at Mumbles. This is a welcome investment, and I understand that most of the cost will be provided through the coastal risk management programme. These schemes, whilst they react to the threat of global warming and rising sea levels, should give confidence to communities and businesses about the viability of those areas at risk. Can the Minister schedule a debate on the impact of the cost of the risk management programme, for all Members to consider the scope, funding and impact of the scheme? Thank you.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. The Welsh Government has put a significant funding into coastal defences and flood defences in general right across the country, and you're quite right: it is really important that our communities, our homes in Wales and our businesses feel protected from the effect of climate change, which we are absolutely living with now. I know the Minister does bring forward written statements at specific times in relation to flood defences, and I will certainly ask her to do so at the appropriate time.

Heledd Fychan AS: Trefnydd, I'm sure you've seen—like all of us—the impact of the devastating floods in Pakistan that have killed over 1,500 people since June, with 33 million people affected. Whole communities have been swept away and people remain in desperate need of help. This is the reality of the climate emergency. Given our commitments under the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 to be a globally responsible nation, and also given the close links between Pakistan and many people living in Wales, I would like to request a statement, please, from the Minister for Social Justice to update us on how Welsh Government are supporting the people of Pakistan and also their relatives here in Wales.

Lesley Griffiths AC: I think you raise a really important point about the effect of climate change in countries right across the world, and this is why we are so adamant here in Wales that we need that just transition. The Minister for Social Justice will be happy to bring forward a statement on that.

Mike Hedges AC: I'm asking for two Government statements. Will the Government make a statement on Welsh Government policy on the outsourcing and privatisation of the Welsh Government-funded public sector in Wales? Can the statement include what arm's-length bodies, funded by the Welsh Government, are told about outsourcing and privatisation in their annual ministerial letter?
Also, will the Government make a statement about promoting the use of British Sign Language by Welsh Government-funded public sector bodies? The British Sign Language Act 2022, passed by the UK Parliament, creates a duty for the UK Government to prepare and publish BSL reports describing what UK Government departments have done to promote the use of BSL in their communication with the public. The UK Act excludes reporting on matters devolved to Scotland and Wales—quite rightly so. Will the Welsh Government either replicate it or use a legislative consent motion to bring it into Welsh law, so that people who are deaf in Wales are not disadvantaged?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. In relation to your question around privatisation and outsourcing, obviously, the private sector plays a crucial role in the Welsh economy and the delivery of some of our public services, but we are committed to providing those services in a way that puts people first and not profit first. The motivations for outsourcing or insourcing can be many and varied, and expertise and capacity are often the drivers for outsourcing, however, we are very clear that outsourcing should not be used to erode workers' pay or their terms and conditions. You'll be aware that the social partnership and public procurement Bill is being brought forward, and that will require certain public bodies to consider socially responsible clauses in all major construction and outsourcing contracts, and ensure that these are delivered throughout the supply chains.
In relation to promoting the use of British Sign Language, obviously, the new curriculum in Wales is now being used right across primary schools in Wales, and using British Sign Language is on the curriculum alongside English and other languages, and the guidance that's been brought forward to support progression in BSL for deaf BSL users as well as allowing schools to choose to introduce BSL to other learners as a second, third, or even subsequent language. I know the Minister is working very closely with the regional educational consortia and partnerships funded by the Welsh Government to support schools. We've commissioned new resources to support teaching and learning BSL in schools and settings in Wales, and the first will be available later this term for free on Hwb, the all-Wales learning platform.

Samuel Kurtz MS: Can I call for two statements, please? Firstly, from the Deputy Minister for Climate Change, as this past weekend saw complete disruption to rail services in south Pembrokeshire. The bus replacement service was, I'm told, unable to take wheelchair users or bikes, potentially leaving passengers stranded. Having worked with the South Pembrokeshire Rail Action Group to highlight the inconsistencies in rail travel on the Pembroke Dock line, I'd appreciate a statement as to what caused the disruption in south Pembrokeshire.
Secondly, a statement from the economy Minister in relation to the administration of COVID support grants for businesses, charities and organisations. Picton Castle Gardens in my constituency received confirmation that their third and final payment would be paid back in February of this year, yet, to date, this final payment has not been received by the charity, and the communication channels have gone cold. Therefore, I would appreciate a statement from the economy Minister on the administration of these grants, what payments are left outstanding and what issues have caused the delay in some payments. Diolch.

Lesley Griffiths AC: In relation to your second question, I think you'd be better off writing directly to the Minister for Economy, and then he can look into that specific case that you brought forward.
I will certainly ask the Deputy Minister for Climate Change to issue a written statement if he has any information that would be helpful in relation to the incident you referred to at the weekend.

Delyth Jewell AC: I'd request a Government statement outlining the Welsh Government's tax-raising strategy, please. Last year, I asked the finance Minister whether the Government was in favour of gaining powers to introduce new income-tax bands, a power that Scotland has. I'd hope the Government would look into this, but, as far as I can tell, nothing has been said on it over the past year. Now, the fact that Scotland can do this means that they can keep the 45 per cent top rate, and the Scottish Government has also introduced a more progressive income tax system with a lower starter rate for low earners.
Trefnydd, the First Minister has described last week's mini budget as 'authentically shocking', and I'd agree, but I'd also like to know if the Welsh Government has neglected to demand powers that would have enabled Wales to set our own policy. But, most importantly, looking to the future, I'd like the statement to set out whether the Government will now pursue these powers to introduce new bands and how they would use them, please.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. I agree with the First Minister and you: I think that the mini budget was nothing short of a disgrace. It rewarded the rich and punished the poor. As you are aware, the Minister for Finance and Local Government will be making a statement this afternoon in relation to the financial statement that came from the UK Government last week.
In relation to your specific questions around income tax, obviously, each year the Welsh Government makes very careful decisions around income tax, and it will be the same this year. No reckless decisions will be made by the Minister for finance.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Can I ask for two statements, please, Trefnydd? One is in respect of the arrangements for groups travelling out of the country post Brexit, and arrangements for carnets to avoid costs being incurred for charities and other groups. She'll be very well aware, recently, of Prostate Cymru,a group of volunteer cyclists riding for charities going through Santander port, who were faced with €8,500 costs that they had to pay before they released their bikes from a van. They were travelling separately from the van. There are new arrangements in place now, a new bureaucracy in place, but many groups aren't aware of this. And I've been subsequently approached by musicians, modelling clubs and others who have been stung by the same costs, as well as individuals. So, anything we can do here, by way of a statement, to show both the arrangements, but also how we can raise awareness of it, would be very welcome.
And the second thing I would really like would be a written statement on an update on Maesteg rail frequency enhancements, please.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. In regard to your first point around the consequences that we were never told about in relation to leaving the European Union, I'm not sure which Minister would take that forward, but I will certainly make some inquiries to see if maybe some guidance could be issued from us, or whether it would be something we would have to urge the UK Government to do.
In relation to your question for a written statement on the Maesteg to Cardiff rail line, I think the Deputy Minister would be very happy to meet with you to discuss services in the first instance, and I know there are plans for delivering additional services on the Maesteg line.

James Evans MS: Minister, planning and other appeals were removed from the joint agency between the UK and Welsh Government and placed within the planning and environment directorate within the Welsh Government. We were told this would improve the service and deliver the changes that Wales needs. In the 11 months since the change, the average delay in even opening the appeals application has increased from just a handful of weeks to 20 weeks—what it is currently. So, can we have a written statement or an update from the Minister for Climate Change on what steps she is taking to decrease the ever-increasing waiting times, and if any fundamental changes will be made to that department to increase performance?

Lesley Griffiths AC: I think it's probably too early to bring forward a statement on that. I know one of the issues, and certainly within my own constituency—it's something that's been raised with me—is the lack of planning officers within our local authorities right across Wales. I think this is something that, obviously, the Minister is aware of and discusses with local government colleagues.

Ken Skates AC: Trefnydd, I'd be very grateful for a statement regarding the economy. It's pretty clear now that the UK Government, and the Chancellor in particular, has lost control of the UK's economy, with terrible consequences in store for us all. Could we have a statement, please, from the economy Minister specifically concerning businesses and the likely consequences for Welsh businesses of a plummeting pound, soaring interest rates and also rocketing inflation?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Again, I absolutely agree with you. I think to borrow to give the rich tax cuts is not a policy that most people would think was very sensible, and clearly there are many concerns that you can see right across the markets, and the international markets too just really have lost confidence and trust in the UK Government. I will certainly ask the Minister for Economy to bring forward a statement at the appropriate time. The announcement about investment zones, for instance, as far as I know, the Minister for Economy had no knowledge of that—I feel another free ports coming along the track. But I think it's really important that we give the Minister for Economy time to have those discussions with the UK Government.

Carolyn Thomas AS: Following on from that, Minister, I was going to say: could I ask for a statement on the investment zones, or, rather, deregulation zones? Cheshire West and Chester Council have been named as possibly one, which could impact on the Deeside area and the enterprise zone in Flintshire. I do also have concerns regarding planning deregulation and the impacts it could have on nature. Affordable housing as well might not happen, and that could further deepen the housing crisis here in Wales. So, I'm asking: could the Minister for Economy provide a statement outlining the Welsh Government's response to these investment or deregulation zones, to ensure we can maintain competitiveness without comprising on terms and conditions of pay, affordable housing and the natural environment, which we must protect in this climate and nature emergency? All those are concerns of mine. Thank you.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. So, you will have heard my answer to Ken Skates, and I think the Minister for Economy does need the time to engage with the UK Government. I think it's really important that any future proposals for Wales would need to be carefully researched. I know the Minister would want to consult upon those. And they really need to work in the best interests of the people of Wales.

That concludes the business statement.

3. Statement by the Minister for Finance and Local Government: Response to the UK Government Financial Statement

We will move now to a statement by the Minister for Finance and Local Government on the response to the UK Government's financial statement. I call on the Minister to make that statement. Rebecca Evans.

Rebecca Evans AC: Diolch, Llywydd. Last week, the Chancellor published his financial statement—a significant package of measures that, in total, represents one of the most consequential, divisive and regressive sets of fiscal changes ever set out by any UK Government. The package was deeply unfair and morally indefensible. It completely failed to target urgent and meaningful support to vulnerable households impacted by the cost-of-living crisis, and left public services, currently stretched beyond any recent experience by inflation, without the critical additional funding that they need this winter.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.

Rebecca Evans AC: Through his statement, the Chancellor ignored all of this and instead prioritised tax cuts for the rich, unlimited bonuses for bankers, and protected the profits of big energy companies. It will have significant economic and social consequences and will cost individuals and families in Wales dearly.
The UK Government should have taken the opportunity to offer more support through welfare benefits and housing. This should have been funded through windfall gains in the energy sector. Instead, the Chancellor has chosen to drastically increase public borrowing, leaving lower income households to shoulder the impact for years to come. The statement failed to set out a comprehensive vision for investment to boost economic growth, improve our energy security for the future and address the climate emergency.
We had no prior engagement on any of the changes in the Chancellor’s statement, including areas of taxation that are devolved to Wales. We are strongly opposed to the abolition of the additional 45 per cent rate of income tax. At a time when it is those on the lower end of the pay scale that are suffering the most, this is a shocking policy to introduce. Evidence strongly suggests that the plan to introduce investment zones will displace economic activity from other parts of the country and have no effect on overall economic growth. We will talk to the UK Government to learn more about these zones, but we will not jeopardise workers’ rights or water down environmental protections.
The UK Government’s insistence that this is not a budget means that it was not accompanied by the traditional distributional analysis, which would have shown how the measures would impact on household finances. I think this speaks volumes. According to the Resolution Foundation, people living in south-east England or London will see more than three times the gains of those in Wales, the north-east or Yorkshire. Wales Fiscal Analysis noted that, in Wales, nearly 90 per cent of the gains will go to households in the top 50 per cent of the income distribution, with 40 per cent going to households in the top 10 per cent.
The Chancellor’s refusal to let the Office for Budget Responsibility provide an economic forecast ahead of his fiscal statement is completely irresponsible. At a time where the UK is on the brink of a recession, the UK Government should have focused on opportunities to invest in people and in programmes that provide economic stability. Instead, the turmoil in the markets in reaction to the statement has shown that there is no confidence in the UK Government’s economic strategy. The movements in sterling and in the cost of government borrowing show that markets do not believe that the current UK Government will either deliver on economic growth or put the public finances on a sustainable footing.
In the absence of OBR forecasts, based on work by the Institute for Fiscal Studies, and new independent forecasts published by HM Treasury, the value of the Welsh Government’s budget over the current three-year settlement is up to £4 billion less in real terms than was expected when that settlement was reached. The Chancellor’s statement failed entirely to recognise these pressures.
For the current financial year, we have maximised our funding, prioritising health and public services and addressing the climate emergency. Here in Wales, we will be spending £1.6 billion this financial year on schemes targeted towards the cost-of-living crisis and on programmes that put money in people’s pockets. Without additional funding from the UK Government, we face extremely difficult choices, both for the current year and as we begin to formulate our budgets for the next two years. I remain concerned at the underlying level of uncertainty surrounding the UK Government’s budget plans and the impact that this has on our own ability to plan.
The certainty that I was able to provide to delivery partners and their employees by setting a multi-year budget in 2022 has all but been eroded by the lack of clarity on HM Treasury’s future plans, and I remain increasingly concerned at the impact that this could have. The Chancellor has indicated that he wants to introduce further tax cuts,at the same time as reducing debt as a share of GDP. This implies that we will likely see huge spending cuts in future. Not only is the UK Government failing to address the problems in funding levels now, it is also determined to set the country on a course that means further cuts in already stretched public services.
I was already considering what changes we should make to land transaction tax rates and bands due to the increases in property prices in Wales prior to the UK Government’s rushed fiscal statement. I would have liked to have made these changes in our budget later this year. However, I am concerned that the level of expectation of changes will lead to considerable uncertainty in our housing market. I am therefore announcing that I'll be making changes to both the starting threshold at which LTT is payable by homebuyers and the tax rate that they pay. Our zero-rate band will increase for transactions paying no more than £180,000 to not more than £225,000. The next band will be for transactions where the consideration given is more than £225,000 but not more than £400,000. The rate payable will be 6 per cent. This will mean that there will be a reduction in tax payable for transactions costing up to £345,000 of a maximum of £1,575. These changes will come into effect on 10 October.
There will also be a small maximum tax increase of up to £550 for transactions costing more than £345,000. This represents around 15 per cent of property transactions in Wales. I have taken this decision on the knowledge that taxpayers buying homes costing more than £345,000 are also those most likely to benefit from the tax cuts that the Chancellor announced last Friday. Transitional rules will be included to protect taxpayers who have exchanged contracts before the regulations making the changes come into force. There will be no changes to the higher rates residential property transactions—the rates and thresholds will remain the same—and all other elements of land transaction tax will remain unchanged.
I know that many Members across the Chamber will have concerns at the regressive measures that the UK Government introduced last Friday. I want to reassure you that the Welsh Government will continue to work with progressive parties here, and with our partners across Wales, to protect the people and the public services of Wales as best we can in light of the challenges we face.

Peter Fox AS: Can I thank you, Minister, for your statement, although much of its content was not a surprise today? We believe that the best way to get people through these difficult times, and to combat inflation, is through economic growth as well as direct support. It's not about the trickle-down economics, it's about boosting the supply side performance of our economy by reducing the tax burden on businesses and on people. It's about reforming the economy to improve productivity, creating the conditions for investment that creates jobs, drives wages and delivers the infrastructure and the services that the UK needs. And of course, the Welsh Government, as it normally does, is pushing the doom and gloom narrative. But the fact is that the financial statement delivers a tax cut—[Interruption.] Deputy Presiding Officer, I can't hear.

I know the Member is very capable of handling such heckling, but it is important that we all are able to hear what he has to say, and then Members will be able to have their own opportunities to raise questions themselves.

Peter Fox AS: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The fact is that the financial statement delivers a tax cut for 1.2 million plus people in Wales, meaning that they keep more of their own money—something that is difficult for the Welsh Government to accept—during these difficult times. Even Sir Keir Starmer welcomed the scrapping of the national insurance increase and cut to the basic rate of income tax, and said he would keep both, although his good friend Andy Burnham disagrees with this and said that it wasn't the time for tax cuts. So where's the continuity in thinking there? So, I wonder, who do you agree with, Minister? When is time for tax cuts, or is it just never the right time?
I completely accept that some of the measures we all know about today have been subject to fierce debate and could have been explained better—I agree. But let's be honest, the cap on bonusesnever restricted bankers' remuneration, and a 40 per cent higher rate of tax is what the UK had for over 20 years under previous Labour Governments. This is not a policy by focus groups but a long-term plan with the objective to get Britain growing again, to make the UK more competitive and to attract businesses, jobs and investment. Ultimately, Deputy Llywydd, what the new Chancellor has shown is that he has a plan to get Britain moving again, something that the Welsh Labour Government has struggled to do in Wales.
Minister, we've heard your critique of the UK Government's plan for growth, but where is your plan? What is it? How is the Welsh Government seeking to boost investment into Wales to get more jobs into our communities and finally increase wages in Wales? For too long, Welsh workers have had the smallest pay packets in the UK, nearly £3,000 less a year than the people in Scotland. Is that a sound economic plan? I do welcome today's announcement regarding the land transaction tax following the Chancellor's statement, which will be thanks to the £70 million from the UK Government, but your Government could have and should have gone further to support families aspiring to buy their first home, particularly when the average house price in Wales is £240,000. You should be supporting economic growth.
Deputy Presiding Officer, the fact is that the Welsh Labour Government hasn't got a proper plan. For too long, they have let the Welsh people down. Instead of creating opportunities and building aspiration, they suppress the country's economy with their lack of vision and strategy. This is where our philosophy is different. We don't think aspiration is a dirty word. People shouldn't feel guilty to want a better life for themselves and their families. The Minister also argues that the financial statement does not provide support for people during these tough times. For brevity, Deputy Llywydd, I won't repeat all of the schemes that the UK Government has announced over the past few months. But, let's not forget the energy price guarantee, which will save households around £1,000 a year, the energy bill relief scheme, as well as the numerous targeted help and support schemes, including the £400 energy bill support scheme, whilst the most vulnerable households will receive over £1,200 of additional help.
Let's not forget that the UK Government has already raised the income tax and national insurance thresholds, meaning people on lower incomes already keep more of their own money. But, I accept there is more that needs to be done, and I worry that the Welsh Government is too preoccupied criticizing their UK counterparts at every opportunity rather than focusing on what else can be done to help people. So, how will the Welsh Government's upcoming budget help to deliver the targeted support that you are calling for? How will Ministers use their levers to provide as broad and supportive a package as possible? Thank you.

Rebecca Evans AC: The opposition spokesperson said that the UK Government hadn't perhaps explained its plans properly and they could have explained it better. Well, the Conservatives will have plenty of time over the autumn and winter to explain themselves and explain their party's policies to people who will be struggling as a direct result of their party's mismanagement of the economy and its wrong priorities.
You cannot think that it is right that 90 per cent of the gains that were made on Friday go to the top 50 per cent of people in Wales. You can't think it's right that 40 per cent of the gains go to those households in the top 10 per cent of the income distribution in a cost-of-living crisis. It is people who are struggling who need support. Of course, the Conservatives say they want people to have a better life. Well, the Labour Party wants to help people get that better life. We don't just want them to sit there aspiring for more, we want to help people achieve their potential, and you see that through all of the policies that we introduce here. We clearly have a completely different aspiration for people. We want to support people to achieve their full potential.
The Member asks what would we have done differently. I wrote to the Chancellor ahead of his fiscal statement last week and I set out exactly what we wanted to hear from him. We urged action to address the significant gaps in support for vulnerable households, families, businesses and the delivery of public services. We suggested the removal of the benefit cap and the punitive two-child limit to support families and give children the best start in life. We talked earlier in the Chamber about the importance of housing, so I asked that they increase the local housing allowance rates and funding for discretionary housing payments, to prevent a significant number of people being homeless as a result of rent arrears.
I also asked for additional funding to meet the pressures faced by public services, for supporting fair pay rises across the public sector, and to target those windfall gains in the energy sector, rather than passing on the cost to households through higher borrowing. I said that they should provide urgent clarity on the six-month price cap for businesses and public sector organisations for energy. And what happens after the first six months? Nothing on that. And we said that they need to boost economic growth, and provide a capital stimulus package and address the historic underinvestment in Wales by the UK Government in rail and in research and development. Nothing on any of that either. So, I think that if the UK Government had just taken a few of those steps that we suggested to them, we would have seen a much better package on the part of the UK Government.
The Member talks about national insurance contributions. Well, who gains from those? The tax changes announced are highly regressive. The Institute for Fiscal Studies analysis has found that the lowest paid workers in Wales stand to gain just 63p a month, 3p a day, from this, in terms of the national insurance rise, while the richest could get back £150 a month. I mean, where is the fairness in that? It was a deeply unfair, regressive budget, and I'm very surprised that there is any Conservative in this place who will stand on their feet and defend it.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: I thank the Minister for her statement. I agree with much of what you had to say. The narrative is clear and has been reflected in many comments over the past few days. It is a budget statement that creates division. It's regressive, it's unfair and it's morally indefensible, as you say. It makes the rich richer and hits the poorest in an entirely disproportionate way. You say that there had been no engagement with the Chancellor before the statement. Perhaps you could tell us if there's been engagement since then. I think I know the answer. Indeed, perhaps you could tell us if there's been any engagement at all with the Chancellor since his appointment.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: I feel that this whole episode really graphically demonstrates how fiscally beholden this Senedd is to changes that happen, sometimes at a whim, sometimes driven by dogma, at Westminster. We can complain about abolishing tax bands, about changes to NI, to levels of co-operation, but wouldn't it be better, Minister, rather than complaining, that we actually had the powers here to do something about it? Not just little extra borrowing powers here or there, but a real fundamental overhaul of the fiscal powers that are devolved to Wales. The current fiscal framework isn't fit for purpose; it really exposes how weak Wales's hand is when it comes to protecting the people of Wales from this kind of Tory onslaught on our most vulnerable and our poorest citizens. So, will you join Plaid Cymru in calling for maximising fiscal powers to Wales so that we don't end up being just some sort of buffer Parliament, passing on as little of the pain as we can, and that you, having listed a number of issues that you wrote to the Chancellor about earlier, don't end up having to write to somebody else all the time asking for this, that and the other, but that we actually have the powers to do so ourselves? I trust that you will support us on that.
There is one glaring omission in your statement. As far as I can see, you say nothing about the basic rate of income tax. You rightly oppose the abolition of the additional rate of income tax and you outline plans on land transaction tax. Am I, therefore, right to presume that the Welsh Government is actually adopting the Tory policy on this, effectively depriving the public purse of critical funds that it needs to protect the poorest and most vulnerable in society? Is it not the time, Minister, to utilise some of the tax-varying powers that we have in Wales, not to cut, or to increase taxes in this case, but actually just to keep them at the current level? Doing so would generate an additional £200 million for the Welsh Government to protect those essential services that people are going to be leaning more heavily on than ever before. I agree with Andy Burnham. He says this isn't the most targeted way of using the resources that we've got at this moment in time. So, I'm calling on you, Minister: will you use the powers that you have to protect the basic rate in Wales at 20p in the pound, because that money will help save livelihoods and help save lives?

Rebecca Evans AC: Thank you to the Member for those questions. I can confirm that I have had no direct engagement thus far with the Chancellor. I did have a meeting with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, but, unfortunately, it was after the Chancellor had made his statement. It's normal practice and courtesy, I think, for the Chief Secretary to the Treasury to make a call to finance Ministers across the United Kingdom ahead of the Chancellor's statement to give the headlines of that statement and have a discussion as to what it means for the devolved nations, but, unfortunately, that wasn't the case on this occasion, although I did have that call after the Chancellor had sat down after making his statement. I did make a few points specifically around investment zones. I sought further information as to what the UK Government's plans were for that—how they intended to engage with the Welsh Government on that. I made it very clear from the outset that, on any plans, we'll happily have those discussions and we will hear them out, but there will be nothing happening in Wales that erodes our workers' rights or that impacts upon our environmental standards and so on. So, we had that conversation.
I was also keen to probe the Chief Secretary as to why the UK Government hadn't provided a distributional analysis alongside the budget so that we could see very clearly the impact that it would have on the different income distributions across the UK. They hadn't done that work, but, of course, Wales Fiscal Analysis has done work to help us understand what it means for us here in Wales, and I shared some of that with you earlier on today.
I think another interesting fact that the Wales Governance Centre has shared as well is that there are fewer than 9,000 additional rate payers in Wales—so, those are those people earning over £150,000 a year. But, abolishing that rate will give them around £45 million, between the 9,000 people. So, clearly, again, it's a policy that is regressive. Imagine targeting £45 million towards those people who need it the most. So, those were the kinds of discussions that we had. We're due to have a finance inter-ministerial committee with all four nations shortly, and I know that we'll be picking up some of these discussions then.
I think we probably come to things from a slightly different perspective in terms of the role of the union in these times. I see being part of the union as an insurance policy when you're in economically difficult times, especially during a cost-of-living crisis. It should be the case that the UK Government is there to assist all parts of the UK, especially those that need it most. So, from my perspective, it's not the fact that we have a union that's the problem; the problem is that we have an absolutely dreadful UK Government in charge of the decisions being made.
I do think that there is plenty of common ground, though, in terms of maximising the fiscal powers available to us. I know that we both want to see increased and improved borrowing powers, for example. We want to see improved fiscal flexibilities available to the Welsh Government to help it manage and maximise its budget. So, there is some common ground there. In terms of any further devolution of tax powers, I think that we're probably quite a long way from that now, with a UK Government that is hostile to devolution, to say the least, and where we can't even get agreement on something as uncontroversial and as simple as a vacant land tax, which the UK Government has previously said that it wanted to pursue itself. So, we'll continue to make reasoned arguments and we'll continue to have the support of respected institutions behind those reasoned arguments, and I'd be, obviously, keen to work with colleagues who share that view across the Chamber.

Mike Hedges AC: Can I welcome the Government's statement? We have had a catastrophic Westminster Government financial statement. Inflation and interest rates are increasing, but the pound is collapsing. The Bank of England's interest rate still remains at a historically low level, although I probably won't say that in a month's time. Unfortunately, house prices have increased based upon the expectation of a continuation of low interest rates. We have commodity-driven inflation. Increasing interest rates will not reduce commodity prices, which are traded on world markets, but will cause financial hardship. Prices, which are mainly set in dollars, are increasing due to—I was going to say 'the reduction', but I will say 'the collapse'—the collapse in the value of the pound. The pound has gone down from $1.50 to $1.08 against the dollar since we voted to leave Europe. Now, whatever you say about whether it was right or wrong to leave Europe, we certainly have paid a price in terms of the value of the currency. The Office for Budget Responsibility has said that 2022-23 will see the biggest fall in living standards in the UK since records began.
Can I just raise one issue, which I raised last week and I will keep on raising: the problem of energy standing charges, which affect the poorest hardest? Will the Minister take this up with the Westminster Government? Nothing is, to me, sadder than people who have scraped or borrowed to buy energy tokens to see them partly used up by standing charges for days they were unable to afford to use any energy, but they're still paying those standing charges. This affects the poorest in society, and can I urge the Minister to raise this with Westminster? It doesn't need to cost anything in terms of total income, but it would certainly benefit some of the poorest in society.

Rebecca Evans AC: I would absolutely recognise everything that Mike Hedges has said in terms of the economic impact of the statement. I think that it’s been well reported now that the view generally is that the Chancellor has just taken a huge gamble on the nation's finances, and I think a good piece of advice for everyone, really, is never gamble more than you can afford to lose. But, unfortunately, the Chancellor’s gambling with more than just his own life, his own chances; he’s gambling with those of everybody in this country, and people who can't afford to lose. So, I think that that has been a really important observation as well. Mike Hedges's points are completely right in terms of the unnecessary risks that are being taken with public finances. Obviously, we've seen that it's unnerved investors. The Financial Times noted parallels with the 1972 and 1973 budgets, which it described as
'the worst pieces of short-term economic management in Britain since the second world war',
and the Institute for Fiscal Studies shows that the new Government's policies are likely to put debt on an 'ever-rising path'.
Mike Hedges also talked about the impact on sterling, and the lack of confidence in the UK Government's management of the economy and public finances has seen sterling weaken, which will result in rising consumer prices here at home and disturbingly sharp increases in the interest rate on Government debt. So, a whole range of negative responses to the UK Government's budget of last week.
I think the point about standing charges is an important one, and we will absolutely find ways to raise that with the UK Government. It makes that wider point, doesn't it, that it costs more to be poor in Wales and in the UK at the moment, because of a whole range of reasons, including the fact that your shopping choices are often much more limited if you don't have a car, you have to pay for things on hire-purchase, which end up costing much more, and a depressing fact that I heard at a constituency event over the last week was that it actually costs more to run an empty fridge than it does to run a full one. I just think that is such a horrible and ironic characterisation of the challenges that people are facing at the moment.

Alun Davies AC: I'm grateful to the Minister for her statement. I think it's clear that this was a budget for the very richest people in society. It wasn't a budget for Wales and it wasn't a budget for the people of Wales. Liz Truss has seen the economy collapse by £500 billion—or dollars, as you could say nowadays—since becoming Prime Minister. It is the most extraordinary economic failure that I can remember in my lifetime, and, together with Brexit, I think we are seeing some really serious structural damage to the basis of our economy at the moment.
I very much agree with the assessment of the Minister. I also agree with the point that was made by Llyr in terms of the financial framework, and looking again at the financial framework. I think the financial framework was established at a time when you had two Governments working together, and clearly at the moment that's not what we have. I think, Minister, the points you made in your statement this afternoon underpin that assessment. I'd like you, if you could, Minister, to give us the cost of the changes you've made to the land transaction tax—how much that will cost the Welsh exchequer—so we can understand the consequences of that. And one of the issues that we haven't really debated—

Alun, you have gone past your time. Can you make it very quick, please?

Alun Davies AC: Yes, I understand that.
It's the impact on public spending, and the impact on our future ability to fund public services. Inflation is already hitting public services, and it is important that we are able to understand the impact that this budget statement will have on our ability to fund public services in the future.

Rebecca Evans AC: Again, I agree with everything that Alun Davies has said about this being a budget for the very richest, which will benefit very, very few people here in Wales. It is absolutely an extraordinary economic failure, and I agree that it is another approach by the Conservatives that sits right alongside Brexit in terms of ways in which it can cause long-term economic harm to Wales, and, obviously, all of the social and economic challenges that go alongside that as well.
In terms of the financial framework, yes, I think that there is more work to do now in terms of thinking about what the future of that should look like, and I know that colleagues will have a great interest in that. And I think this point about public services is one of the most important things, which I think has generally been overlooked so far in the coverage of the budget. But, as the dust settles and we start to understand what the impact will be on public services, and the fact that there is no more money coming and that difficult choices are going to have to be made, I think that we'll be talking much more about that. I know that local government and health, in particular, will have lots to say on that.
And then, just to respond to the specific question in terms of the cost of the changes to the LTT main residential rates and bands, in this financial year it will be £9 million; in 2023-24, £19 million; and in 2024-25, £18 million. The overall impact is that a higher proportion of transactions in Wales than in England will pay no tax, and around 61 per cent of transactions will be paying no tax in 2023-24. And, of course, the threshold increase that we've announced exceeds the price growth between 2018-19 and 2021-22. So, I think it does offer a good package for homebuyers. As I say, it's something that we've been working on over the summer. I had hoped to announce it alongside the draft budget, but I didn't want to cause uncertainty in the housing market, which is why I've brought it forward to today.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Minister, this week, the people of Wales watched the UK Chancellor hand grotesquely unfair and, I would say, immoral tax cuts to the super rich; uncap the bonuses for bankers; protect the profits of big energy companies; lose control of sterling, which has plummeted off a cliff; increase both the debt and the cost of debt to the UK; load those costs onto ours and to future generations; increase the cost of imports; increase the risk of household mortgages and borrowing costs, rising way beyond affordability and crippling households into the spring; and add frightening new costs above and beyond the existing Conservative cost-of-living crisis to families, business and public services up and down the land. Would you agree with me, Minister, that this is not time for the 1922 committee to respond to letters calling for a change of leader of the Tory party; it's time for a general election and a change to a Government of sound economic competence, to a UK Labour Government?

Rebecca Evans AC: Yes, Deputy Presiding Officer, I would.

Carolyn Thomas AS: The rich are getting richer; the poorer are getting poorer. People will be struggling to pay their mortgages on top of rising energy costs. Public services are on their knees following 10 years of austerity. Forty-five billion pounds of tax cuts could have paid for a 19 or 20 per cent increase in public sector workers, including carers, and universal credit is the impact of that as well. So, I hear that people who work part-time will have to work more hours in order to receive universal credit, which will have an impact on parents, childcare and on people with disabilities. Minister, do you agree with me—. And women, again. Minister, do you agree with me that it will be the ordinary people of Wales who will be paying for this for years to come, rather than the bankers who will be filling their pockets, and the wealthy?

Rebecca Evans AC: I agree that it is absolutely a punitive budget from the UK Government, and it speaks volumes that only the Conservative spokesperson this afternoon has got up to defend the Conservative budget this week. I'd be very interested to see what the other Conservative Members make of it, and those who don't feel like they have to stand up and defend it, because it's indefensible—that's why. And I think that this point is really important about the fact that it's poorer people who will be mostly disadvantaged, but it's just the attitude as well.
So, the UK Government thinks that rich people have to be incentivised with lots of cash to get out and do some work and to grow the economy. But, at the same end of things, they think that you have to give poorer people a good kicking because they should have that kind of incentive to get out and work, because what they're doing on universal credit is absolutely punitive. People who, for whatever reason, can only work a certain number of hours, they might have childcare—of course, this budget is very, very anti-women as well—they might have childcare responsibilities, they might be disabled and working as many hours as they possibly can, but now, if they don't go out and get another minimum-wage job, they will have their benefits sanctioned. And we know that people who have their benefits sanctioned, according to the National Audit Office, are more likely to just give up on benefits and stop claiming entirely than take other action. So, clearly, this budget is going to have the worst impact on the people who need the most assistance.

And finally, Peredur Owen Griffiths.

Peredur Owen Griffiths AS: Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Minister, could you maybe give us an indication of whether you agreed with Andy Burnham leaving the 20 per cent rate as it is, so that it leaves the money there, so that we can actually invest in our communities?

Rebecca Evans AC: So, we've got a really well tried-and-tested approach to Welsh rates of income tax, so, it's normal practice for us to announce those rates alongside the final budget debate. And, obviously, we will be having discussions with colleagues ahead of that, because we have a vote in this Senedd on our Welsh rates of income tax. You'll have heard what the First Minister said to the Senedd last week in his First Minister's questions on our approach to Welsh rates of income tax, but as I say, we take this issue very carefully, we consider a whole range of items, and we'll be making our announcements in the normal way, rather than being pushed into any quick announcement because of actions on the part of the UK Government. And, as I say, our normal practice and our normal routine is to make those announcements and have that vote alongside the final budget.

Mark Isherwood, you put your hand up. This is a statement and not an intervention. Do you wish to ask a question, because the Minister did invite Members to ask questions?

Mark Isherwood AC: Yes, to ask a question, if that's appropriate, to yourself.

I will allow you to be the last speaker in this case, because our time is almost up, and you were invited to ask questions, so I will allow it. Mark Isherwood.

Mark Isherwood AC: That's very kind, thank you. Well, I've been a Member for almost 20 years, and throughout that time, I've heard the Welsh Governments talk constantly about the amount of money it has to spend but almost never about how that money is earned. In consequence, Wales has the lowest prosperity, lowest wages, lowest employment and the highest child poverty in the UK, and pays billions less in tax than it receives from the Treasury. Is it not the case that this begging-bowl Welsh Government is entirely dependent on the taxpayers of south-east England and the city of London?

Rebecca Evans AC: Well, you get the impression from the tone of the contribution that the Member doesn't much like Welsh people and their efforts here in Wales. No, I'm sorry, I don't recognise what the Member is saying. We're talking here about a budget that is just so completely regressive. How on earth Members can try and defend something that just takes money away from poorer people—let's remember, vulnerable people are going to be paying for this borrowing for years to come. There will be less investment in public services, so if any Conservative stands up in our budget debates and asks me to put another penny into public services, I will be very, very unimpressed by that, if they are supporting this UK Government's budget. And if I see a single photograph of a Conservative in a foodbank or a warm hub over the course of this winter, I will be equally unimpressed, because these things do not need to happen. Foodbanks and warm hubs are political choices made by the UK Government and ratified in their budget—[Interruption.]

Can I ask all Members to keep quiet, please, because I'd like to listen to the Minister's contribution?

Rebecca Evans AC: I've finished now, Dirprwy Lywydd.

I thank the Minister.

4. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Social Services: Early Years Provision—Expansion of Flying Start

Item 4 this afternoon is a statement by the Deputy Minister for Social Services: Early years provision—expansion of Flying Start, and I call on Julie Morgan to make the statement.

Julie Morgan AC: Thank you, Dirprwy Llywydd, and thank you for the opportunity to come here today to talk to Members about our plans to expand early years provision for two-year-olds across Wales.

Julie Morgan AC: The Welsh Government is committed to ensuring that every child in Wales has the best start in life. The early years are vitally important in a child's life, providing formative opportunities and setting the course for longer term learning and development. Investment in early years care and education, as set out in our vision for an integrated early childhood education and care system, is key to children's happiness and well-being and sets children on the path to achieve their full potential.

Julie Morgan AC: Reflecting the importance of the early years, our programme for government commits us to continuing our support for our flagship Flying Start programme. Working with our colleagues in Plaid Cymru as part of the co-operation agreement, we have extended our commitment to deliver a phased expansion of early years provision to include all two-year-olds, with a particular emphasis on strengthening Welsh-medium provision.
In March this year, I announced that the expansion of early years provision would initially be delivered through our Flying Start programme, with the first phase starting this September, this month. The initial expansion will provide Flying Start services to up to 2,500 additional children across Wales under the age of four. These children and their families will benefit from increased access to health visitors, support with speech, language and communication, parenting services, and access to Flying Start childcare for children aged two to three. I'm pleased to inform Members of the Senedd that this additional provision is already being delivered across Wales, and along with the Plaid Cymru designated Member, Siân Gwenllian, I want to thank our local authorities and wider early years partners for ensuring that this expansion could happen so quickly. We've had a tremendous response from them.
I'm now able to confirm that the second phase of expansion will focus on delivering the childcare element of Flying Start to even more two-year-olds. This approach will build on that taken in phase 1, working with our local authority partners and the childcare sector to provide the highest quality provision.Starting with some of our most disadvantaged communities, delivery will begin in April, and over the following two years, we will invest £26 million in expanding Flying Start childcare. This investment will allow the reach of Flying Start childcare provision to expand significantly, supporting long-term, positive impacts on the lives of those children and families across Wales facing the greatest challenges, and never has it been needed more.
I'm pleased to say that we have already published detailed draft guidance for our partners and the sector. This will enable early planning to take place at a local level so that we can make rapid progress towards achieving our goal of providing the best possible early years experience for all children in Wales. Over this period, we'll also be seeking to significantly increase the availability of Welsh-medium childcare provision. The co-operation agreement commitment also emphasises the importance of supporting Welsh-medium early years provision. I'm pleased to announce a package of measures to support existing Welsh-medium settings and childcare workers, as well as those wanting to enter the children's workforce. Additional funding of up to £3.787 million will be provided to Cwlwm over the next three financial years to support a range of measures, including additional and bespoke Welsh language training, dedicated support to Welsh-medium settings, and those seeking to increase their use of the Welsh language, as well as training courses delivered through the medium of Welsh.
This funding will support us to attract more Welsh speakers into the workforce. It will provide opportunities for Welsh learners and Welsh speakers within the existing workforce to improve their language skills, and it will deliver a continuous programme of professional development for Welsh speakers within the workforce. Funding will support existing settings to expand into Welsh-medium provision, as well as enabling new, dedicated Welsh-medium settings to open. And, as I said earlier, I've been working very closely on this with the designated Member, Siân Gwenllian.
Increasing capacity across the childcare sector will be integral to driving forward this expansion, working across all parts of the sector. Since 2006, we have invested over £160 million in childcare settings across Wales through our Flying Start and childcare offer capital programmes. Building on this success, I'm pleased to announce a new three-year capital programme of £70 million, which all registered childcare settings will have the opportunity to access. Our existing funding has supported Flying Start settings to develop and maintain the infrastructure required to deliver the full complement of services to eligible children and their families. This has included high-quality childcare settings and venues suitable for delivering parenting and early language and development programmes.
The additional £70 million will fund major capital works, as well as a small grant to allow settings to apply for financial support for minor capital improvements and essential maintenance across the Flying Start and childcare estate in Wales. Guidance on the new application process will be issued to local authorities in the coming weeks.
This is a significant step forward. It is £100 million all together into the childcare sector, it is a result of the co-operation agreement between Labour and Plaid Cymru, and I’m really very proud that we’re able to make this announcement in the Senedd today.

Julie Morgan AC: I would ask the Senedd to join me in welcoming this investment in supporting our children and young people. Thank you.

Gareth Davies AS: I thank you for your statement this afternoon, Deputy Minister, despite you announcing your plan to the media 48 hours before discussing the proposals on the floor of this Senedd, to where you're elected. But it was good to see you in north Wales on Friday, so that's a positive.
And turning to your announcement today, I'd like to start on a technical point, if I may. I’m very interested in the £70 million to upgrade care settings, Deputy Minister. So, how will this funding be weighted amongst the 22 local authorities—which is, essentially, a question to ask how much each council will receive? I also note that you'll be publishing guidance on the application process, but could you tell us today what the maximum bid is childcare settings can apply for and who is eligible for this funding?
Child poverty rates have actually increased in Wales, Deputy Minister. In 2020-21, Wales had 34 per cent of children living below the poverty line, which is the worst in the UK, with England at 29 per cent, Scotland at 21 per cent, and Northern Ireland at 24 per cent. I hope you recognise these figures, Deputy Minister, and are in a position to outline today which components of the extension will directly tackle these issues. And where I can welcome the principle of extra spending on childcare, you could have gone further than this if the Labour and Plaid Cymru coalition weren’t determined to create 36 more Members of the Senedd, costing in the region of £100 million, which, during a cost-of-living crisis, and winter on the horizon, would seem to be a plausible argument to make this afternoon, Deputy Minister.
Now, when introduced in 2007, the Flying Start scheme was seen as one of the Welsh Government's top priorities for tackling poverty. So, does the Deputy Minister believe it has worked, and how will this extension improve chances for the most deprived children in Wales? And I'd like to also address geographical and postcode-lottery concerns, particularly when it comes to cases where more affluent families can qualify for the Flying Start scheme, and families in need of the support can't qualify, just because of where they live. So, can the Deputy Minister give less-well-off families any assurances today that the extension will go some way to tackle these problems? And if not, what future plans will the Welsh Government adopt to make sure that extra spending is focused on the people who need it the most?
And this is the true cost of 25 years of Labour in Wales—years of economic mismanagement have seen Wales's in-work poverty grow alongside rising child poverty. Is it any wonder when, under Labour, Welsh workers take home the lowest pay packets in Great Britain, with hard-working people missing out on £3,000 compared to other parts of the UK? Labour Ministers need to stop playing politics with the real pressures that people are facing, and stop wasting money on their vanity projects and provide the targeted support that hard-working people and businesses are crying out for. Thank you.

Julie Morgan AC: Thank you very much for that contribution. Well, you said one positive thing at the beginning—that you were pleased to see me and Siân visiting the cylch meithrin in north Wales, and I’d like to say that we had a very good visit and it was very pleasant and very stimulating and I think shows what we're able to do to work with children.
I don’t think, probably, the rest of the points you made were exactly positive, but you asked some questions. So, the £70 million, how will it be weighted amongst the local authorities? The local authorities will have the opportunity to bid for that money and, obviously, it's going to cover a huge range of provision. Some of it will be for fairly small improvements to existing provision. We will need some new provision. We may need some totally new builds. So, the range of money that local authorities will bid for will be quite wide.
Then you went on to mention child poverty rates, and this £100 million investment is directly addressing child poverty, because, if you provide a warm, safe place for children to go, free childcare for 12.5 hours per week for two-year-olds, that is a huge step towards giving the parents the opportunity to have somewhere for their children to go in that sort of way, and is directly addressing the cost-of-living crisis that we're in. So, I think childcare is one of the most important things we can do, and one of the most important things that we can do to help the economic difficulties of the country as well. So, I see it as a direct contribution towards addressing child poverty, which we all want to see fall.
Then he went on to political points, from what I could see. In terms of the 36 new Members of the Senedd, perhaps he could take the view that investing in strengthening Wales's democracy through expanding the Senedd is really a guaranteed way of making sure we've got a Government in Wales that is absolutely committed to public services and to protecting the most vulnerable in society. That is the purpose of our plans to expand the Senedd in Wales. So, I really see that that is a political point, and I want to emphasise today that this is a great announcement and it is a great move forward and it's something that we are so pleased that we are able to do.

Heledd Fychan AS: Thank you, Deputy Minister, for today's statement. Obviously, we are pleased to see a further commitment from the agreement between the Government and Plaid Cymru being realised, not just on paper but also delivering for the people of Wales. And for Plaid Cymru, free childcare for two-year-olds is an important first step in our vision for free childcare for all. It shows that we can do things differently here in Wales, and that, even with the powers that we have, we can put in place measures to give our children the best possible start while also implementing measures to tackle poverty. Certainly, these are important measures in terms of that.
In the wake of the cost-of-living crisis, this will provide a lifeline for many families, by eliminating costs and also by eliminating a barrier for parents who may wish to return to work. But this is only a starting point. The Welsh Government's progress on free childcare must be ambitious, and continue to be so, in order to ensure that as many children as possible in the coming years can benefit from childcare settings from a young age. We have to move as quickly as possible to make the policy a reality, and ultimately we would like to see free childcare provided to all children over the age of one, and I hope that we can agree that this should be the ultimate goal.
Alongside acceleration and expansion is the need to ensure that the expansion of Welsh-medium provision is central to this and that it is seen as a core part of today's statement—not as something separate or something that is happening alongside that, but something entirely central. This is the only way to ensure that every child in Wales has the opportunity to learn the two official languages ​​of our country and reach the target of a million Welsh speakers and ultimately increase the use of the language.
Of course, as you outlined in the statement, a major challenge is developing the workforce so that we can offer childcare services throughout Wales in the Welsh language, and it is good to see investment in this. Could I therefore press on the Deputy Minister to confirm today that expanding provision as a matter of urgency is a priority for the Government, and that the Welsh language is a central, rather than supplementary, part of these plans?

Julie Morgan AC: Diolch. Thank you very much for those comments and question. I really welcome the commitment to childcare in Wales, and I'm very pleased that we've been able to take these steps forward. I absolutely agree that childcare is a lifeline for families, for all families, and for struggling families in particular it's a huge boost. I think we are ambitious. The co-operation agreement says that we will reach all two-year-olds by the end of the co-operation agreement. That is a three-year agreement and that is very challenging, but both myself and the designated Member are determined to do all we possibly can to achieve that. Our long-term policy for childcare, over a 10-year strategy, is to look at a much wider group of children and, ultimately, we would like to move to the position where we have got childcare available for all those who want it and need it. But that is a 10-year strategy. But, during these three years, we want to reach all two-year-olds. That is ambitious, I know, and the workforce is one of the areas that we are working on most strongly.
I just want to reassure the Member that Welsh-medium education and care must be seen as an integral part of the whole thing, that, whatever we do, we must see it as part of that, as integral, not an add-on. And we want to use this opportunity to give families and children in Wales the huge benefit of being able to, as you say, use the two official languages of Wales, and we want to make that easy to happen and we want to make it part of the whole system. So, I can assure her that that is our aim and that's why we have specifically allocated money in this announcement today to strengthen the Welsh-medium provision, working with Cwlwm very closely, and ensuring that there will be opportunities for existing members of staff to develop and learn confidence in the Welsh language, as well as attracting new members of staff and offering wide opportunities, and also putting in a development officer to develop the Welsh language provision in each of the Cwlwm partners. So, we have got specific costed plans to use the money that we've got. We know that the workforce is one of the issues that we have to tackle for both English and Welsh-medium settings, but we're well aware of that and are doing all we possibly can to follow that up.

I thank the Deputy Minister.

5. Statement by the Minister for Education and Welsh Language: Supporting the Education Workforce

The next item is a statement by the Minister for Education and Welsh Language—supporting the education workforce. I call on the Minister to make the statement. Jeremy Miles.

Jeremy Miles AC: Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I've made it clear that we cannot support the well-being of pupils and provide high-quality education unless the workforce feel that they are being supported. That means that workforce well-being must be at the forefront of everything that we do. Tackling workload must be a priority. The managing workload and reducing bureaucracy group, comprising key stakeholders from the education community, has identified and considered significant issues that have an impact on workload. The group is soon to sign off its recommendations, but I'm expecting proposals that will make a significant difference, such as ensuring that the term 'mock inspection' becomes obsolete, clarification around expectations for lesson planning and quality control particularly in primary schools, and ensuring all future communication and guidance is streamlined. I will also be establishing a new process within the education department, where all policies and reforms must consider the implications for workload.
An education system is only as good as the quality of its teachers. I am proud that we have such a dedicated workforce, and I know that they welcome the steps that we're taking towards a system driven by career-long professional learning. Later this week, I will be publishing the new national professional learning entitlement. This will bring together a package of professional learning for the entire education workforce so that anyone, wherever they are based in Wales, can benefit from it. This will be a live entitlement, curated as it evolves. It will make it easier for practitioners to access professional learning programmes, and it will set out our clear expectations on what every professional in Wales should be entitled to. If that entitlement is not currently in place, we will work at pace with partners to improve the offer.

Jeremy Miles AC: Our national offer must be consistent and of the highest quality. I can therefore announce we will introduce a new validation process to ensure all national professional learning is quality assured and recognised. I am also pleased to inform you that a new cross-regional website has gone live today. The website will provide equitable access to information regarding professional learning provision for practitioners across Wales, together with open access to the Curriculum for Wales professional learning offer across all regions. The site will continue to develop so that it provides universal access to further professional learning opportunities and resources. The new validation process and the new cross-regional website are important steps towards ensuring that we have a consistent, validated, reputable offer that is available to all.

Jeremy Miles AC: Recognising the additional burden on education staff, particularly following the pandemic, and to support the professional learning entitlement, I am consulting on extending the provision of an additional in-service training day for the next three academic years, and I would encourage everyone with an interest to respond to the consultation.
To strengthen professional learning and support we have made improvements to statutory induction, following a public consultation in the spring. From this term, we are providing funding for trained mentors to support all newlyqualified teachers throughout induction. A national programme of professional learning has also been developed, regardless of whether NQTs are working on a contract or supply basis.
On curriculum implementation, we provided flexibility to secondary schools to commence in either 2022 or 2023. My officials continue to share early plans with teaching unions, addressing their concerns where possible, and in some cases, adjusting plans in response to wider workload considerations. Research on the early experiences of curriculum realisation will begin this term, allowing us to understand what is working welland what lessons we can learn moving forward to help us best support practitioners.
Similarly, I have continued to listen to concerns raised about the pressures facing the workforce to meet the timeline for moving children to the new additional learning needs system. Last spring, I announced an extra year to move the first group of children. With strong commitment across Wales to deliver improved outcomes for children and young people with additional learning needs, we continue to support the sector with £21 million annually over the next two years to boost capacity and implementation support. It is heartening to learn that families are reporting positively on their experiences so far.
The devolution of teachers' pay, terms and conditions presented Wales with an opportunity to forge a new path to support our workforce, and that is what we have done. We have taken a social partnership approach, working with the teaching profession to help provide higher salaries and allowances for both new and experienced teachers when compared, for example, to England. We will work with stakeholders on a comprehensive review of the structure of teachers' pay and conditions, providing further opportunities to develop a more distinct national system, not only improving and enhancing the system, but making it fairer and more transparent.
For too long supply teachers have not felt supported enough. Working with Plaid Cymru, we are taking action to address that. Over the coming months, I will be setting out significant reforms that will look at the system as a whole, and ensure that supply staff are fairly rewarded for the work that they do. Teaching assistants are also an integral part of our education workforce, which is why I have already set out a number of actions that we will take to support them, including addressing their specific workforce issues and professional learning.
As I've said, well-being support is vital, Dirprwy Lywydd. In the spring, I announced increased funding to support the mental health and well-being of the education workforce, with funding of £1.2 million this financial year, rising to £3 million by 2024-25. We continue to fund the charity Education Support, who provide bespoke, tailored support for mental health and well-being to the education workforce. Wider well-being support is also being scoped, working with stakeholders, employers and unions.
Dirprwy Lywydd, as a Government, we remain wholly committed to supporting the education workforce. We have made strong progress over the last year, and I am determined to keep up this momentum so that we continue to support our workforce in helping them to raise standards and aspirations in our classrooms.

Tom Giffard AS: Can I thank the Minister for his statement today? I think much of it is to be welcomed. But I think it would be remiss of me not to say that, at the beginning of your statement, you mention that workforce well-being must be at the forefront of all that we do, and yet, since 2011, we've seen 7,000 more pupils enter the classroom and 4,000 fewer teachers to teach them. And that teacher shortage is even more stark in the Welsh language education sector. And while that's in no way a reflection on the dedication and hard work of the profession that we've seen over that time, by consistently failing to recruit enough teachers in Wales, it's the Welsh Government that continues to let down that workforce. Surely, a way to let the workforce feel valued and motivated is to recruit more teachers, lessen the burden on their workload, which would ensure that teachers remain in the profession and we can attract the best from all corners of the country. Minister, can you outline what steps your department is taking to help with some of those pressures?
Another way we can get teachers and teaching assistants to feel valued is through their pay. So, Minister, can you provide an update on these reviews, particularly the one around teaching assistants' pay and conditions? As a former teaching assistant myself, and with a number of friends still in the profession, I know first-hand that a number of TAs go above and beyond their contracted duties for the benefit of their pupils and their school, and it would be useful for them to get the clarity that they deserve from that review.
The shift towards a system driven by career-long professional learning is one to be welcomed, and I look forward to seeing the new national professional learning entitlement. Could you just confirm that, where you say you'll work at pace with partners to improve the offer, professionals will not be disadvantaged depending on the school or local authority that they will be teaching in, and that this will be a consistent offer of professional development across Wales? Also, how will we know that this is having an impact on the profession? How will success be measured? And how will teachers, teaching assistants and pupils benefit from that? What clear guidelines will you be setting out for those groups, to ensure that we don't have a postcode lottery of access to that professional development?
I also welcome the fact that you've acknowledged the additional burden on educational staff, and the mental health and well-being of the workforce must be at the forefront of our minds when we consider that support for the professions. Therefore, in light of the consultation on an additional INSET day for teachers for the next three years, could you confirm when the profession should expect a final announcement on that? And given the additional burdens placed on educational staff that you mentioned, is one additional INSET day really going to be a substantial help to enable teachers and staff to catch up on the professional development required that you mention?
On NQTs, the national programme is again to be welcomed. But I wonder if the Minister had considered a potential buddy programme with more experienced staff, to help support them, helping them with their professional development and creating clear pathways for their career.
To touch on supply teachers, I welcome the acknowledgement that supply teachers are not supported enough, and I know that the profession would welcome swift action on that. So, could the Minister give an idea of what those reforms will look like, as the industry are looking for a degree of certainty to help keep people within the profession? Finally, on agency staff, they're often some of the worst affected staff members when it comes to work conditions.
I do think we need to set up a clear pathway for teaching assistants to learn and enhance professional development, so that we can get more teaching assistants to become teachers, as, often, it's those teaching assistants that are doing much of the job of a teacher in the first place, with little or no reward for it. Therefore, some action on ensuring that we attract people from all backgrounds into the profession, to ensure that not only teachers, but pupils and the sector as a whole benefit from some of those changes. So, finally, what action are you taking to simplify the pathway for teaching assistants to become teachers in their own right? Thank you.

Jeremy Miles AC: I thank the Member for that range of questions. He will be aware of the increase in the number of teachers applying to ITE in recent years, and I'm sure he will be welcoming that. He will also be aware of the work we are doing to promote teaching as an attractive profession. We spend perhaps quite a lot of time in the Chamber discussing the challenges, but, in my experience, and I'm sure in his experience, teachers in classrooms will tell you about the fantastic experience they have as teachers, and the joy—. He will have had personal experience of that, given his previous career. And I think there's more that we can do to make sure that people also recognise the wonderful opportunities that teaching brings to shape the lives of young people and improve their life chances, which is the key motivator, in my experience, of people who take up teaching as a profession. We also have a package of incentives, which he will be aware of, which evidence suggests is bearing fruit in terms of recruitment, in particular into areas where it's been challenging to recruit into some subject areas.

Jeremy Miles AC: On the point about managing workload, we have had for some time a process that has engaged teachers, teaching unions, Government and other partners and stakeholders in the education system to look at what we can do to remove those elements of workload that may have built up over time and to apply a fresh lens to them to say, 'Are they absolutely necessary? Do they add the value that justifies the level of commitment and hours that teachers and teaching staff will broadly have to put in to responding to those?' So, that work has—you know, it is challenging work. These things aren't randomly designed, they're generally designed for good reasons, but perhaps periodically we need to refresh that, look again at them. So, that work has been going on for some time, and I'm expecting to get advice very shortly about some specific actions that we've been working on with the profession to reduce workload. So, I'll be able to bring forward a statement, I hope, in the not-too-distant future that will give a bit more meat on the bone in relation to that.
He asked a number of points in relation to teaching assistants, and I want to echo his appreciation for the work that they do. He has personal experience of that, as he says. We have a pathway for professional learning for teachers, for teaching assistants. The national professional learning entitlement will also extend to teaching assistants. As he will know from the statement I made earlier this year, we've been undertaking work in relation to the standardisation of roles and the guidance in relation to deployment, advice to governing bodies and so on. I recommend he casts an eye over that statement, which will explain to him the steps that we are taking to support our teaching assistants.
In relation to the national professional entitlement, he will have heard me say in the statement that the whole point of it is to be a national entitlement. The clue is in the name. So, the website that is being launched today provides access to teachers in any part of Wales to the professional learning offer of consortia in any part of Wales. So, it's no longer limited to the particular consortium in which that individual teacher happens to practice. So, that information is now available on a national basis for the reason that he was asking about in his question, and we will be evaluating the effectiveness of the professional learning, the offer. We are in a constant process of evaluation in relation to professional learning because there is so much happening in the system at the moment. But, I can assure him that that will be part of our work there.
He asked for clarity about when a decision would be announced on the INSET day. Adding an additional INSET day requires regulations, and that requires consultation. We've minimised the consultation period consistent with what we feel is the appropriate time to give people an opportunity to respond. The consultation closes on 28 October, so I hope to be able to make a statement pretty shortly after that, so that schools will have the clarity that I know we all want to see. But, it's an inescapable part of the process, as I know that he will understand.
He asked about buddying. Mentoring is, as you will have heard from my statement, a key part of our offer for early years practitioners, so I hope that will have given him some assurance.

Heledd Fychan AS: Thank you, Minister, for today's statement. It was good to hear clearly at the beginning of your statement that the welfare of the workforce is a leading consideration in everything, and I echo those sentiments in terms of its importance.
Like several other Members, I attended a lunch-time event here in the Senedd for the launch of the short guide, 'Tackling child poverty together', by the National Education Union of Wales and Child Poverty Action Group, and heard very powerful evidence about the impact of the cost-of-living crisis, not only on children and young people, but also the workforce. The additional stress on teachers in terms of supporting learners and their families is an important matter for us to consider, and I would like to ask today what further steps are being taken by the Government to ensure more support for the education workforce in this regard. The impact of this on staff was supported by the teachers' union survey, which found that 58 per cent of teachers said that they had given food or clothes to pupils, that six in every 10 had sought support from external agencies for families, and that 35 per cent have supported a pupil's family to gain access to a food bank.
We heard clearly from learners at today's event how they consider the cost of transport to be a barrier to people getting to school. With schools being measured on attendance, and pressure on teachers to reach targets in terms of attendance, this is, certainly, a challenge. You know they are being measured in terms of attendance with pupils, and that's something that headteachers are working towards, because we know the importance of having children in school. But that is an additional challenge, when we need to convince families of the importance of that and support them to be able to afford to reach the school.
But we also must also remember that the workforce not only supports people who have been affected by the cost of living crisis, but that they also face challenges themselves, with the price of fuel, for example, having increased, meaning that traveling to work is more expensive, not to mention an increase in other costs that all of us face. Furthermore, and you've already mentioned the importance of teaching assistants, we must also recognise that they are specifically affected by the cost-of-living crisis. A host of headteachers have shared with me that they have set up food banks in schools, not only to support learners and their families but also staff. What work is being done, therefore, by the Government to understand the impact of the cost-of-living crisis on the education workforce as a whole?
As I mentioned last week during questions, Scotland has started to place advisers in schools in order to provide support and ensure that everyone knows how to receive the financial support that's available for them, whether they are pupils or staff or part of the broader community. At the moment, this burden seems to fall entirely on teachers and headteachers. Have you had an opportunity to consider further the benefits of trying to emulate a scheme like Scotland's here in Wales? Because, as you've mentioned in your statement, there is a burden on teachers in terms of the new curriculum and ALN. The cost-of-living crisis is obviously another element of that, and I'd appreciate more information on that.

Jeremy Miles AC: I thank the Member for those further questions. I also attended the event earlier today, and listened to the evidence from a teacher, who happens to be from my own constituency, discussing her experience of being in school and providing that broader support, which is required because of the situation faced by many families. That's certainly something that's happening elsewhere too.
In terms of our work as a Government, what we are endeavouring to do is that we provide support in order to reduce the likelihood of that happening, perhaps through providing support to those families who are most in need of support, for example, in terms of cost of living, in terms of school uniform and events at school, but also, a she will be aware, the work that we are doing along with Plaid Cymru in terms of extending free school meals. So, there are a number of things that we are doing with the intention of reducing the pressures on those families who are having most difficulty. But in a situation such as the one that we see now, with the broader social pressures on families, the situation, as was described to us earlier today, is very sad indeed. So, what we're doing is ensuring that we're providing all the support that we possibly can to the families who need that most.
In terms of attendance targets, there are no statutory targets at the moment, for the reasons that she outlined, in terms of the pressures currently on schools. But it's also important that we do support our teachers in ensuring that pupils do return. We know that over COVID that's been very challenging for many schools. We've provided specific funding to ensure that we can support schools that need that support to remake connections with families, where perhaps children aren't attending school. So we're doing our best to support teachers to ensure that that happens, rather than putting in place statutory targets at the moment. But it is right that schools do look at that. It's an aim of the education system to have our children in the classroom, so that is important work that teachers are doing.
In terms of her final point, in terms of teaching assistants, I perhaps responded to some of that in answering Tom Giffard. I attended a meeting yesterday and this morning with the schools social partnership council discussing the pressures on school staff, in light of the cost-of-living crisis. So, it's an issue for families, as well as teachers and TAs. This was a theme of a meeting that I attended yesterday that the EPI had arranged to hear what's happening elsewhere in the UK, and it's a debate that's being had elsewhere too. So, it's priority to ensure that we enhance the terms of TAs. We do have some of the powers, but other powers rest with local authorities and there’s a lot of work to be done in order to ensure that we do improve the situation in this area. We’ve started that work; it’s going relatively well, but there’s more to be done.

Finally, Jayne Bryant.

Jayne Bryant AC: Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. I fully welcome your statement this afternoon, Minister, and your personal commitment to supporting the education workforce.
We expect so much of teachers and school staff; their roles extend to being so much more than educators and we know they go above and beyond what is expected of them. This often extends outside their working day, and so many continue to support students and families in their own time. They help with community events and they’re asked to support the police; often being at the forefront, they can be in the firing line for many unpopular decisions outside of their own control, and they really can feel the brunt of opinion on social media.
The work that they provide is invaluable to our children and young people in Wales and they really should have the best support possible. Some of those that provide vital support are the teaching assistants and the learning support assistants, as you touched on earlier. I know a current review is in place to look at ways we can incentivise more people to join and remain in these professions, and I’d urge the Minister to do everything that he can to provide that help. These roles are crucial and they require dedication and a huge amount of patience and commitment. They again go above and beyond their responsibilities.
I’d just like to ask what work is being done to support those teachers and teaching assistants perhaps later on in their careers, or those who are approaching retirement, and how we’re looking to support those, perhaps if they want to stay in the workforce a bit more flexibly than they have done, and also to use their incredible skills and experience that they can pass on to others who are new to the role, because they are really, really important.
Finally, we know that the UK Tory Government is really determined to prioritise bankers’ bonuses rather than properly funding our public services. What more can the Welsh Government do to show our education workforce that we value their skills, dedication and professionalism?

Jeremy Miles AC: We do value their skills, their dedication and their professionalism. The contribution of teachers to the well-being of our young people and the well-being of our nation is immense. The amazing work they do to shape young lives and make sure that every single young person has the best start in life, the best opportunity to fulfil their potential, is extraordinary. I will take any opportunity to pay tribute to them for the fantastic work that they do.
In relation to the support that we provide for teaching assistants, there have been a number of work streams under way since the statement that I made earlier in the year, and some of those work streams have been led by teaching assistants themselves. For example, in relation to the work under way to look at the standardisation of job roles, which is very varied in different authorities across Wales, the initial stage of that, which is already under way, is being led by teaching assistants looking at job specifications. The next stage then will be working with local government partners.
The advice that we’ve been providing in relation to the deployment of teaching assistants to make sure there is a consistency in approach is also being led by teaching assistants. The professional learning offer that I mentioned earlier, which launches this week, has a specific component for teaching assistants that will enable them to know what their entitlement is, where they can find it, and to give a sense of what the validated resources available to them are. I’ve also written to governing bodies in Wales recommending the appointment of a governor responsible for teaching assistants specifically, to make sure the voice of teaching assistants is heard in the governing body when decisions are being made across the school.
So, in each of those areas, there is significant progress under way. As I mentioned in my answer to Heledd Fychan, there’s obviously more to do, but I was keen to make sure that the approach we take to it is one that has teaching assistants at the heart of that work, in partnership with us.
The Member made some specific points about what more we can do in relation to those in the latter parts of their career or who may wish to work flexibly. I was pleased to see—it was published last week, I think, or perhaps the week before, at this point—comparative research looking at the approach to retention in different nations in the UK, and I recommend it if she's interested. In two particular areas, as it happens, late-stage career and part-time teaching, actually Wales is doing very, very well in terms of retention of people, of practitioners in that part of their career. So, I'm pleased with that. There's obviously more that we can do, but it does show that with effort and with focus, we can make sure that teachers have those opportunities to make sure they can teach in a way that works for them and that we don't lose, as she was saying, the expertise, the insight and the experience that teachers can bring.

I thank the Minister.

6. Statement by the Minister for Economy: Qatar 2022

The next item is a statement by the Minister for Economy on Qatar 2022. I call on the Minister, Vaughan Gething.

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. With 55 days to go until Wales plays its first game in the men's FIFA World Cup tournament, against the USA on 21 November, the excitement and anticipation of seeing our senior men’s national team compete in our first world cup for 64 years can be felt throughout the nation. With our hope and ambitions on the players’ shoulders, we're afforded one of the most compelling opportunities to promote Wales globally, and to introduce Wales to new audiences.
Firstly, I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate Robert Page, the players, the coaching staff and everybody at the Football Association of Wales for their fantastic achievement to date. Come what may in November, the team should know that they have already made Wales proud just by being there as one of only 32 countries to take a seat at the top table of the game.
The Welsh Government is working closely with the Football Association of Wales and other key partners to maximise this unique opportunity. I'm happy to update Members today on our approach. With a global audience of 5 billion people, the world cup offers a platform to take Wales to the world and to build on our previous activity to reconnect with existing audiences, including our global Welsh diaspora. It is the most significant marketing and sports diplomacy opportunity ever presented to Wales, given the profile of the event.
As Minister for Economy, I have lead ministerial responsibility for co-ordinating the delivery of an ambitious programme of activities that will look to maximise these opportunities and realise benefits that will be delivered through our four key objectives. These are: the promotion of Wales; projecting our values; ensuring the safety of Welsh citizens at the tournament; and securing a positive and lasting legacy from our participation at the men's world cup.
In relation to the promotion of Wales, I'm pleased to announce that much progress has already been made. A programme of activity has been mobilised that seeks to maximise these opportunities. We are implementing an enhanced marketing campaign that will focus on core target international markets across brand, business and tourism as well as a strong in-Wales presence. The campaign’s target markets include the USA, key European markets, the UK and Qatar.
The marketing campaign also looks to deliver activities through work with our greatest advocates—the fans and the voices from Wales—as well as with our partners, diaspora and world cup ambassadors, Lleisiau Cymru, who will act as strong and influential voices for Wales right across our activity. A budget of £2.5 million is in place to deliver on that enhanced marketing programme. Food and drink promotion will be taking place in Qatar, including a dinner in advance of the tournament to promote Welsh produce.
We've already established a partner support fund with the aim of adding value to a small number of exceptional projects that can deliver on our core objectives. This fund will utilise the expertise of a range of organisations to support and enhance our programme of activities and to develop content. I've announced today the 19 successful projects with a combined investment of £1.8 million that will support our objective of promoting Wales and of sharing our culture, arts, and heritage to become an integral part of this global celebration. Activities will take place here in Wales, in Qatar and in some of our key markets, as I've mentioned, such as the USA. As a package, these projects will project our collective strength as a nation with the wider partnership of organisations, the true embodiment of team Wales and the mantra that we are, indeed, stronger together.

Vaughan Gething AC: To support our objective to promote Wales and engage in diplomacy, the First Minister, the Deputy Minister for Arts and Sport, and Chief Whip and I will attend a range of events, as well as each of Wales's group games against the USA, Iran and England. And I'm hoping to add more, depending on progress in the tournament. The core aim of these visits will be to support initiatives that will help to grow the economy, raise the profile of Wales and promote us as a globally responsible nation. Our Welsh Government offices in Dubai and Qatar have provided a wide-ranging and full programme of engagements for Ministers that will look to maximise our support for these initiatives.
We will also use the Welsh Government's wider network of overseas offices to maximise the opportunity to promote Wales and engage with key international stakeholders, particularly in Qatar, Dubai, the US and Europe. This includes working with our Welsh Government envoys, especially in the US and Dubai, and our wider diaspora. We're working closely with the UK Government and, indeed, the embassy in Qatar, on opportunities to promote Wales. We will have our own distinctly Welsh presence in Doha and Welsh content in the UK GREAT garden pavilion, GREAT festival and UK Day. We will have a Welsh themed VIP reception on 21 November, aligned with the USA match, which is to be hosted by the British ambassador to Qatar, with our First Minister as the chief guest.
We are acutely aware of the significant challenges in hosting an event of this nature in Qatar, with the fine balance we need to strike between maximising opportunities and promoting our core values as a nation. Hosting the world cup in Qatar has shone a light on that country's human rights and workers' rights records. We know that some of our LGBTQ+ fans will not travel to the country, due to its stance on LGBTQ+ rights, for example. We will use our platform as an opportunity to express our values and to demonstrate that Wales is a nation of values on the world stage. We will do this through our enhanced marketing campaign and international engagement, including through our promotion of the diverse stories of modern today's Wales and, indeed, of Wales as a nation of sanctuary. The Welsh Government recognises that the diversity of our global relationship means that not all the countries with which we have a relationship will share the same values. We take a balanced approach to our international engagement, promoting Wales's values and engaging constructively with partners and stakeholders across these issues. To ensure the safety and security of Welsh citizens in Qatar, and a welcome for all, we are continually engaging with the UK Government through regular meetings and a range of Government agencies. Regular channels of contact have been established for updates on matters of security and safety from the Qatari supreme committee, which is the committee responsible for managing and organising the event.
As a Government, and with our wider partners, we need to ensure that we build a legacy from the world cup that inspires the next generation of boys and girls. Even more importantly, we want to advance physical activity and sporting participation to support the health and well-being of our nation. To help secure a positive and lasting legacy, our programme for government already makes a commitment to invest in sporting facilities, with a capital budget of £24 million over the next three years to support investment in facilities across all sports. We also invest in facilities through the schools capital programme and, indeed, directly through local authorities. But, beyond that, there is an opportunity for all of us, as individuals, businesses, organisations and, indeed, as community leaders in this room and beyond, to embrace the legacy of our participation in this world cup.
In celebrating the men's achievement, we also have much to be proud of with the progress of the women's team. With the 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup in Australia and New Zealand on the horizon, should our women's team qualify through the play-offs, as we all hope they will, we should look to reflect activity and learn to support the team in their own world cup journey. And we, of course, all wish the team well in their upcoming play-off against Bosnia and Herzegovina on 6 October.
Dirprwy Lywydd, as you can see, we have established an ambitious and exciting range of activities to make the most of this unique opportunity. My intention is to provide a further statement and update in November ahead of the world cup opening ceremony on 20 November. In the meantime, I wish the FAW and its partners all the very best in their preparations.

Tom Giffard AS: Can I thank the Minister for bringing this statement to the Senedd today? What an incredible opportunity that we have here. What a historic moment in our history to see Robert Page and the rest of team Cymru at our first world cup since 1958—our first world cup in 64 years, I think. Qualification was secured back in June in a game that I think you were at, and I was certainly at, Minister—I think I saw you there. We were both very privileged to attend, in that case. We're just 54-and-a-half days from the start of what is a golden opportunity to showcase our wonderful nation to the rest of the world. And the best way for us to showcase our great country to the rest of the world is through our great Welsh fans, because they know that it isn't just when the world cup starts that we can put Wales on display; there's an opportunity to give people a flavour of Welsh life and the opportunity for us to leave a legacy in Qatar. And there's no better example of that than the exemplary display from the travelling Welsh fans at the recent away game in Belgium, where they were picking up rubbish in Brussels to ensure that they left no footprint behind.
Much of your statement today, Minister, was devoted to the Lleisiau Cymru campaign, which sets aside £2.5 million to deliver what you call an enhanced marketing programme. But, these things are usually only worth the paper they're written on if you also publish not only the monetary figure but the metrics by which this scheme would be judged a success. So, what does success look like, exactly, on the back of this particular fund? How can we judge whether that money was well spent or not? Will you commit to sharing these specific metrics with the Senedd?
Another avenue to support Wales internationally, as was mentioned in your statement, is via the world cup partner support fund. We warned at the time that the very short window for applications of just 11 days would severely disadvantage a wide variety of applicants from across Wales, and will instead significantly favour organisations with prior relationships with the Welsh Government that had the capacity and the knowledge to access this funding. I'm afraid to say that that's been borne out by your written statement from earlier today. A total of £1.9 million has been spread across 19 organisations in Wales. The biggest beneficiaries are organisations like the FAW, S4C, the Arts Council and Wales Arts International—all worthy causes in their own right, but the Welsh Government here missed an opportunity to do things differently and engage with a large number of organisations across Wales, not just the usual big institutions based here in Cardiff. So, Minister, on reflection, do you accept that the tight timescale could have been extended somewhat to allow a greater breadth of opportunity for smaller groups across the country to participate? Can I also ask, Minister, how many organisations in total applied for this particular fund, and what did some of the projects entail from these groups? How will the Welsh Government provide an opportunity to those groups that were either unsuccessful or, perhaps, didn't have the time to apply, to make a positive difference in their communities, both around the time of the world cup and afterwards?
Finally, I wanted to raise one organisation that doesn't fit the mould that the others do in your list, and that was The Barry Horns, who, I have seen, have received £17,032 of taxpayers' money from the World Cup partner support fund. Can you explain how this particular decision was taken and what the rationale was for their inclusion? If this World Cup is to bring us together as a nation and spread inclusivity in the way that you suggest, it's more important than ever that the Welsh Government distances itself from this particular organisation.Anyone who spends even a small amount of time on social media will see that 'The Barry Horns' is one of the most abusive and toxic social media accounts in Wales today. Most of their content is unrepeatable in this Chamber, but they seek to castigate any individual with a different political viewpoint to their own. I myself have had to block them on Twitter for the way they've castigated me personally, and many of my colleagues on these Welsh Conservative benches have had to do the same.
In a nation where Welsh Conservatives are the second biggest party in terms of parliamentary representation in both of our Parliaments, how can we legitimately use taxpayers' money to fund an organisation that spreads hate and bile towards such a large proportion of the population? Indeed, they don't even try to hide their political affiliation; bearing in mind that we've got a game against England coming up in the World Cup, they recently said that Wales was being destroyed by English rule. In the Senedd election, they used the hashtag 'kick the Tories out of the Senedd', and even last year they posted, 'Have you joined Plaid Cymru yet? Do it now.' It's a long-established principle in this country that we shouldn't be using taxpayers' money to fund party political causes, and we should take extra care to ensure that the perception that this is happening is not allowed to take hold either. So you'll understand my surprise to see them included in this list, and by funding them, you could level the accusation at Welsh Government that they endorse a number of their inflammatory comments. So finally, Minister, will you commit to reviewing the £17,000 figure awarded by your Government to this group?

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you for the series of questions. In terms of the metrics that we'll use, I will share some of the information that we're going to be using to judge, but also we're going to have an evaluation on the impact as well, and I'll be very keen to share that—not just in the Senedd; it may be the sort of thing that I would expect the relevant subject committee would be very interested in. And there's a choice there about the two committees that may have an interest, because there's a significant economic impact as well as the broader challenges for the committee that Delyth Jewell chairs on arts, culture and that end as well.
So, we have this challenge of setting out what we want to do in terms of the number of people who will have a greater awareness of Wales and what's on offer here, both within this country and also in trading and other relationships further afield, and that's why we're particularly interested in the focus on target markets. It's fortuitous in many ways, but not entirely fortuitous, that we have had an event with the wrestling—that's a huge market in America, and if we'd had to pay for that it would have cost us a huge amount of money to get that sort of focus and attention. We now have the first game in the world cup with the Welsh diaspora there as well, and with two envoys there who are working very hard with us on their own links to promote Wales, too. And then what I'm really positive about is in terms of our ability to capitalise on the legacy in the immediate and longer term aftermath. So I'll be more than happy to provide more information in a way that is useful for Senedd Members to be aware of and, indeed, to scrutinise, but I don't think it will be as simple as one set of measures within a week because, as I say, there'll be the evaluations to look at as well.
On the speed of the applications and decisions made, there is always a balance here, is there not? We qualified when we did, so we couldn't really plan and deliver an application process before then. We then had a number of particular shocks and difficulties, then finding a budget, then needing to advertise it and then needing to make choices. And part of the challenge in making those choices is that we need to give organisations enough time to actually put a bid in, to actually look at it, to score it and to scrutinise it and then to be able to announce it, so that the organisations have the opportunity to plan and deliver their activity. And I simply don't accept the Member's contention that this is all about Cardiff-based organisations. The Boys' and Girls' Clubs of Wales, for example, have a footprint across the country. If you think about the Urdd, they may have an office literally over the way from here, but they're very much an all-Wales organisation and they're running a project that will go into every single primary school in Wales. So, there are many, many all-Wales projects, and actually, if you look at the geographic focus, and where there is only one particular geography where it's based, it's actually Wrexham that does better than other parts of Wales, because of the football museum and the work that is going to be done there, and a particular festival that's going to take place in Wrexham as well. The great majority of what we are supporting is all-Wales, and some specific activity within North America as well, which, as I say, is a big market for us.
I think when it comes to the broader legacy, not just in physical activity and the investment in facilities that is needed—because the event in itself won't guarantee that, in 10 years' time, Wales will be a fitter and healthier nation, but it is a potential springboard with investment in the community game, improving facilities for more people to be able to take part in physical activities—that is part of our change and shift in the culture of us as a nation. There's quite a lot of culture change that we need to see to renormalise ways of doing things, whether it's moving, getting to places, and indeed enjoying sport through all ages and all abilities as well.
I'll finally turn to your final point, and indeed your starting point. The starting point was about the impact of our fans as ambassadors, and the Red Wall have been huge ambassadors for Wales. I'm old enough—you may not be, but I'm old enough, even as a middle-aged man—to remember when football fans following the national team weren't always the credit that they are near universally recognised to be now. It wasn't always the case that Wales fans would be decent to each other, never mind the places they visited. There were too many examples of behaviour that we would not be proud of, and actually, for a long period of time now, our fans have been amazing ambassadors,not just for the team but for the country, and I know that having met other businesses, having met other ambassadors for other countries, and, actually, some of the ambassadorial team in the region, who recognise that, actually, from their previous postings, when Wales have played games in the more recent past, there has been a really positive legacy left by those fans, and I'm really proud of that. I saw it myself in 2016 at the Euros in Bordeaux, where Welsh fans were sitting down, drinking and eating before the game with Slovenian fans, and there wasn't a hint of trouble. And I'm afraid that, with our friends across the border, there are many fans who fit exactly into that mould—who are real, genuine fans, who want to take their family to enjoy the game—but, unfortunately, they still have a larger problem than we do in the behaviour of some of their fans. It's a real strength of ours that we really need to keep hold of—the unifying message of the team and the fan behaviour.
That brings me to The Barry Horns, because I think you need to be able to disconnect a Twitter account from somebody who has a particular view, which people are entitled to in a democratic country—and, let's be clear, the person who runs that Twitter account isn't a supporter of me and my party either, and I don't have a problem with that. But the band itself is very much part of what takes place around the game, and, if you've been to a number of games, then you know that The Barry Horns, within the fan base, are something that people actually like and enjoy about the atmosphere that's created, and that's what we're looking to promote. So, it's not an endorsement of individual views of individual members in or around the band itself; it is about what the band does as a really positive projection and extension of the Red Wall. And when they're part of team Wales and the Red Wall, I think all of us can see something to be proud of and that adds to the atmosphere and the environment. We'll carry on having our differences on other matters in public life, but I am comfortable with our decision to support The Barry Horns and their engagement with the wider Red Wall in Qatar.

Heledd Fychan AS: Thank you, Minister, for your statement today.

Heledd Fychan AS: As you know, I was very keen to hear this statement before the summer. I was concerned prior to the recess that there were no plans in place, but I am really thrilled to see these announcements today. I was particularly pleased to see that you'd received 97 applications in total that could have been worth £7.1 million, which just shows that creativity that has been inspired by this historic event. And I think part of the challenge for us is looking at how, with a legacy, that continues in terms of that outpouring of support, that increase in confidence, how we can carry on with that legacy of creativity as well.
Another important element is, of course, the opportunity it provides in terms of the Welsh language; the fact that the team now own that word 'Cymru'. When we're playing, it's Cymru there against any other country, rather than Wales, so that ownership and distinctiveness comes across clearly. And I would like to ask, Minister, how within the marketing campaign is that embodiment of Cymru being embraced by Welsh Government, because I think since the team and the Football Association of Wales have personified and owned that word so that it's normalised and used by everyone, whether they speak the language or not—how can we maximise that so that it's used internationally to identify Wales?
I would also like to ask—. You've mentioned here the Welsh Government's overseas offices and the important role they play. In a previous role, I visited Qatar and saw that it was one member of staff in the Welsh Government offices. So, therefore, can I ask what additional resources have been put into those Welsh Government overseas offices in Qatar to ensure that we are maximising those opportunities?
I also wanted to ask if you could give a bit more information about how you're working with the UK Government on the opportunities to promote Wales in Qatar, and, specifically, you've referenced the GREAT festival and the UK Day. You'll know that I've previously raised concerns about the risk of Wales being under that GREAT campaign banner, and how we have our distinct presence. So, I wonder if you could perhaps highlight how that distinct identity will be maintained, and that we don't see a union jack rather than our own flag representing us, which would, actually, undermine a lot of the great work being done by the FAW if that were to happen. I hope it's been resolved and there's not that risk, because you have mentioned there about our distinct identity, but I would like to see how that's going to work with this idea of a UK Day and GREAT festival and so on—how we're going to feature there.
I'd also like to know what funding has been secured from UK Government to support the promotion of Wales specifically and Welsh identity as part of this. Because, obviously, we are competing against our neighbours, England; we have two distinct teams. And I'm sure there will be a great amount of promotion of the English team—we're already seeing it in supermarkets and so on, where some large companies have forgotten that there are two teams in the World Cup from the United Kingdom—and it's therefore important that we have that distinct identity, so I would like some reassurances there.
You've also referenced, of course, the key concern for many, which is around human rights in terms of LGBTQ and workers' rights. And obviously, the fact that some of our fans don't feel safe in travelling is of huge concern, and I note the discussions you've been having, but, obviously, I think one of the things—. For any fans who are LGBTQ+ who are travelling, I think it's knowing that assurances of their safety and how they will be supported is something that we need to make clear. Also, in terms of this world cup, it is likely to set standards for future events, so we need to ensure we are making a stand for human rights. I'm pleased to see you reference that, but I think some additional information would be helpful. Because, as you know, a YouGov survey, commissioned by Amnesty International, found that 73 per cent of people were in favour of using world cup revenues to compensate workers who suffered in preparation. And this increases to 84 per cent for those who are likely to watch at least one game, and 67 per cent want their national football associations to speak out. So, therefore, can the Minister put on record support for these calls to FIFA and the Qatari Government, to ensure workers who've suffered are compensated and that this level of human rights abuse should not be accepted or tolerated for future events.
Finally, if I may, you have mentioned legacy in terms of those sporting facilities. You will know that the FAW have said that, in order to be able to address poor facilities in Wales, it would require an investment of £343 million over the next 20 years. Therefore, can we look at ensuring that, after the evaluation and everything, that legacy part is central to our plans? Because, hopefully, we will be qualifying for the next world cup and can start our preparations for maximising on that legacy after this one. Like you said in your statement, we wish Cymru well in the world cup. There are very exciting plans here, which I'm pleased to see you announce, and I'm looking forward to being able to support the team—from Wales; unfortunately, I won't be travelling like you. Diolch.

Vaughan Gething AC: Well, there are many burdens in ministerial life, but I'll take one for the team, literally. Look, on the creative legacy, I actually think, with the programme we've announced, within that creative legacy, not just the projects we haven't been able to fund, but lots of organisations and groups, will be running their own activity anyway. We haven't had any real conversation about fan zones, partly because the tournament's in November and it'll probably be dark by the time the games are actually on here, as opposed to 2016, where we had a fantastic summer for each of the games that we played. But, actually, there'll be lots of activity, not just in venues that already exist and that will want to show the game and get people to celebrate, but in the run-up to it as well.
I remember—I still remember—being young and seeing other men's football world cups and there not being a Wales team there, but, actually, world cup fever is very hard to avoid when it comes to the football world cup. It is such a giant juggernaut of a game, and it's even bigger now than it was when I was genuinely young, as opposed to youthful for a politician. And I think that, within our country, given it's been 64 years, over the next few weeks, it'll be very hard to avoid the world cup, and I think lots of people will be looking to take part in different activities. And what we're doing within this programme is making it easy for a lot of people to get involved. Like I said, every primary school will be engaged in at least one of the projects.
But, more than that, I think you'll see lots of different clubs and organisations looking to engage their own supporter base, and lots of digital content as well for what's being done in some of the things that we've supported. And within that, you will see a very strong Welsh language narrative and use of what we're doing not just in Wales but, indeed, some of the things we're doing abroad as well. So, in North America—and one of the events we're looking to do there, it's with S4C—there'll be plenty of Welsh language content in what we're doing in promoting the language there. And, indeed, it's been one of the reasons why I think that the two new owners of Wrexham have been such a success: (a) because they've got a sense of humour—they've obviously come with a name that makes other people interested, but I think they've been very positive and respectful in promoting the Welsh language, and they've done things in a way that I think elected Members probably couldn't do. They've used that space really creatively, and I think that gives us a good base to have an even greater explanation and positive open-door policy into looking at the two languages of our country, not just the one of them. So, I think that's a really big opportunity, and hopefully you'll see that not just in the bids, but in what actually happens as well.
When it comes to additional resource, we'll have additional people on the ground, both during the tournament and in some of the run-up, in the region, but also in the US, to assist in some of the marketing and the engagement there as well. But it isn't just about the numbers of people, it's what they're able to do, and, again, some of the digital content we'll be able to use and working with partner organisations. If we simply wanted to do this ourselves, we wouldn't have the right number of people or, indeed, the right links that exist.
So, Wales's international diaspora and organisations that already exist in Dubai and Qatar will be really important for us in looking to grow and expand our links and exposure there, and I think that's also relevant to the engagement with UK-branded events. That's partly because I had the opportunity to go to Dubai during the World Expo, and, during that time, your concerns about the union jack being seen as interchangeable, say, with the George cross, actually, when we had Wales Day in the UK pavilion, it really was a proper Wales takeover, and you could not get anywhere near the UK pavilion without recognising that we were there and the promotion of Wales not just in the food and drink, but in what took place outside as well as inside as well.
So, I do think that our embassy staff in different parts of the world recognise their responsibility to all countries within the UK. We've had already really good engagement with the embassy with both the First Minister and myself in looking at making sure that what they do genuinely supports all nations. We're talking with the UK Government about UK Day and the 'GREAT' branded activity to be clear that it won't just be the union jack that's there; it'll be our flag alongside it as well, in particular on the things that we are doing, and it will properly reflect the fact that there are two nations from the UK who have qualified for this world cup. And, when it comes to future world cups, of course, there'll be the women's world cup, which I hope will be the next world cup that we get to discuss and talk about our direct participation in.
When it comes to LGBTQ+ fans, that is part of our challenge, in how we give people the certainty and the confidence that their issues and concerns won't be avoided. That's why I talk about being positive about our values and who we are as Wales today and who we want to be in the future, and for fans to go there and to be who they are and to be safe and to be looked after. The Qatari supreme committee who are organising the tournament are quite sensitive to this, in that they don't want anyone to not feel welcome. And it's not just Wales that are talking about this—virtually every European football association has talked about this proactively, because of the great changes taking place across Europe. Actually, if this tournament had taken place 50 years ago, we wouldn't have been talking about this, because, actually, across Europe, there was a very different attitude. And actually, 50 years ago—. Well, certainly when Wales qualified for the last tournament, it wasn't legal in this country to be gay and in a relationship. So, we recognise that we've made progress in the last half century, and some of this is about making sure that those gains aren't put to one side or avoided for the sake of sport, but are part of our engagement. The First Minister will be making a statement on our engagement with different parts of the world, as I've referenced in my own statement, to set out our approach to how we'll engage with different countries in the world without sacrificing our own values.
Then, on the point the FAW have made, it's a brave, seductive and audacious bid to get £343 million of capital out of the finance Minister when, actually, we do know that we had a practical and, in fact, a cash cut in our capital budget. So, there's a lot of pressure. So, the money that we've already put in is money that is a priority in really difficult times. Our challenge will be how and where we can get capital and how we use that to improve facilities, and, crucially, in the way we look at sporting facilities, how we can get multi-use for different sports. That's already taking place between a range of organisations, but there will certainly be much more to do in improving grass-roots and community facilities in this and many other activities after the tournament.

Hefin David AC: In my view, I don't think that Qatar should be hosting the world cup at all; I think it's an appalling reflection on the values of FIFA that a country with human rights records such as theirs, and not just in the treatment of LGBTQ+ people—but also the appalling treatment of migrant workers that was exposed by Gary Neville recently demonstrates that this world cup should never have gone to Qatar.
In his statement, the Minister says:
'We will use our platform as an opportunity to express our concerns and demonstrate Wales is a nation of values on the world stage.'
I'd like to know, with Ministers going there, will they take the opportunity to express those concerns directly to the officials they meet and anyone in Government that they meet, and say that those values that Qatar holds are not values held by a respectable country? And did the Government at all consider Ministers boycotting the world cup?

Vaughan Gething AC: Thank you for the points and comments. Look, we’re not responsible for FIFA's choices about how it operates as an organisation on a number of levels. We are responsible for wanting to work alongside the game, the people who run it, and the people who play it and support it. That's why we've set out the balance in what we're doing to ensure the safety of people travelling, what we need to do to maximise the opportunities for Wales from the tournament, wherever it takes place, and indeed the point about our values and not losing sight of our values in the work that we do. That's why the First Minister's statement will be even more helpful because Hefin David is expressing a view that many Members share, and I recognise that. And, given my own background as an employment lawyer for trade unions and a trade union shop steward, I recognise many of the points you're making about how our own workforce is treated and the fact that those values are international and not simply for people that we happen to know ourselves. So, our values and our approach will be key, and that will inform our engagement with people in Qatar as well.
Our challenge, I think, is when we talk about what we're doing and the sort of Wales we are, we will talk about what a modern Wales is, and it's worth reflecting that, in some parts of that region, there are people who are looking to make progress and they're looking to make progress within a much shorter space of time than the few centuries or five or six decades it's taken us to make the progress that we now value and respect today. And what we, I think, need to be doing is showing that, actually, a modern country that respects all of its citizens is in a better place to prosper in the future rather than one that doesn't recognise and value all of the difference and diversity that you have within your country. You lose talent as well as those people who will look at you and think they wouldn't want to have all the relationships they otherwise might do in terms of other parts of the world. So, I can give the Member the assurance that the way that Ministers engage will be positive about who we are, who our fans are, and how we want to work with the rest of the world.
In considering a boycott, we've considered all options, but we think it's the right thing for Ministers to go, to support our team, and to make the very best of the opportunity that it is, both in terms of what it does for Wales on the stage, but also in that positive point about projecting and being proud of our values today.

I thank the Minister.

7. Statement by the Minister for Social Justice: Update on Ukraine

The next item is a statement by the Minister for Social Justice, an update on Ukraine. Jane Hutt.

Jane Hutt AC: Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd, for an opportunity to provide an update to Members about our ongoing work to support people from Ukraine seeking sanctuary in Wales. When I last updated you in June, Wales had welcomed just over 2,200 Ukrainians to Wales under the Homes for Ukraine scheme, including our supersponsor route, and I'm pleased to say that this number has risen significantly over the summer recess. Over 5,650 people from Ukraine, sponsored by the Welsh Government and Welsh households, had arrived in the UK by 20 September. There have been additional arrivals under the Ukraine family scheme, but we're not given that data by the UK Government.
But more than 8,200 visas have now been granted to people from the Ukraine who have sponsors in Wales, so we can expect the number of arrivals to continue to grow in the coming weeks, though we anticipate more slowly than over the summer period.
Our partners in local government, the NHS, the third sector, volunteers and, of course, all those people who are acting as sponsors, are making phenomenal efforts to support sanctuary seekers with the services and information they need. Welsh Ministers and leaders of local authorities are now meeting fortnightly to ensure close collaboration on the delivery of these schemes.
Our supersponsor route has supported more than 2,700 Ukrainians here in Wales, with a further 1,700 who've had visas issued with Welsh Government as a sponsor. We're working with the Home Office to ascertain the likelihood of those 1,700 individuals arriving in Wales, so that we can properly plan for providing accommodation and wraparound support.
Since I last updated Members, we've had several temporary, initial-accommodation welcome centres join our scheme, and some have come to an end. Members will appreciate that we don't comment upon these temporary sites, in use, for security and privacy reasons, but I want to pay tribute to partners who have supported us and have now closed their provision. The care and compassion demonstrated by the local authorities, local health boards, universities and the third sector in providing initial accommodation and demonstrating their commitment to our nation of sanctuary vision has been exceptional. I also want to thank all those who continue to be at the forefront of our support to arrivals.

Jane Hutt AC: In recent weeks, we have seen a change of UK Government and, with it, the resignation of the UK Minister for Refugees, Lord Harrington. Whilst we had some particular requests of the UK Government, which have not been implemented—from funding, safeguarding processes and improvements to the visa system—Lord Harrington was always willing to make himself available to discuss matters with devolved Governments and be open about his views. We welcomed that engagement and we are asking the UK Government to continue this as part of the new Government's approach.
Last week, my Scottish ministerial counterpart, Neil Gray MSP, and I jointly wrote to the new Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, and the new Home Secretary, to raise awareness of our pressing needs. Our letter includes the urgent need for the UK Government to increase the £350 'thank you' payments for the Ukraine scheme hosts, to ensure that we do not see a wave of homelessness presentations as an impact of the cost-of-living increases. We have called for confirmation of year 2 and year 3 funding tariffs, as well as renewing the call for dedicated ESOL and health funding tariffs, as exist with other resettlement and protection visa schemes. Additionally, we have called again for funding parity between the three Ukraine schemes.
As well as funding requests and a call for the reintroduction of a Minister for refugees, we have asked for close inter-governmental working in relation to supporting those who may arrive in the UK without a Ukraine scheme visa and ensuring those studying remotely with Ukrainian universities are provided with help to continue their studies.
As we move into the new school year, we are seeing many Ukrainian children enrolled in schools and many parents and adults now working in Wales too. We are seeing very encouraging signs of integration in Welsh communities, and we are working hard to ensure that Ukrainians and the wider community receive the support they need.
In July, the Minister for Climate Change published a written statement about our transitional accommodation capital programme. This £65 million programme is supporting local authorities and registered social landlords to provide more good-quality longer term accommodation for Ukrainians, as well as looking much more widely to support all homelessness needs in Wales. We need to provide good-quality transitional accommodation options to enable everyone to get on with their lives—places people can call their own—while we support individuals and families to find a permanent home.
Ukrainians on the Homes for Ukraine scheme can receive advice from the Welsh Government-funded Wales sanctuary service. The service is run by the Welsh Refugee Council, along with Asylum Justice, Displaced People in Action, Ethnic Minorities and Youth Support Team Wales, BAWSO and TGP Cymru. Ukrainians on the Ukraine family scheme can also receive integration support via our partnership with British Red Cross. More information on these services can be found on our sanctuary website.
I'm very happy today to say that the Deputy Minister for Climate Change has also agreed to extend the free public transport offer for people seeking sanctuary—the 'welcome ticket'—until at least March 2023. Eligibility criteria have been updated and will be available shortly on the Welsh Government website.
Finally, I want to say that, earlier this year, we made a £1 million donation to the Community Foundation Wales Nation of Sanctuary Croeso fund. Sizable awards have now been made to the Welsh Refugee Coalition and Oasis Cardiff, as well as small grants to other organisations, to ensure people seeking sanctuary can be supported, irrespective of their national origin. All contributions to the fund will be used to help people fleeing terrible circumstances, and I call on organisations and businesses to consider making a corporate donation to play your part in our nation of sanctuary efforts.
We are immensely thankful to those across Wales who are acting as hosts to Ukrainians. Acting as a host is a big commitment and we want to ensure that it is supported. We have funded Housing Justice Cymru to provide a host support service, which includes expert and reliable information, training, advice and guidance for people hosting, or those considering hosting, on the Homes for Ukraine scheme in Wales.More information on sessions and training can be found on the Housing Justice Cymru website.However, we still need many more households to consider whether they could provide a home for six to 12 months for those in need, and if anyone is considering this, we encourage them to register their interest at gov.wales/offerhome, and to attend one of the introduction to hosting sessions facilitated by Housing Justice Cymru.
We are developing a regular timetable of communications with our Ukrainian guests and hosts to ensure that they are regularly informed about updates, opportunities and available support. In addition, we are planning to engage with arrivals to better understand aspirations, challenges and integration since arrival in Wales. Throughout this crisis, Wales has lived up to its aspiration as a nation of sanctuary and it is vital that we hear the voice of those who have arrived and are settling in Wales to ensure that our response meets their needs. Finally—very finally—with the conflict in Ukraine, Llywydd, continuing as a result of Putin’s ongoing aggression, we must ensure that we stand ready together to continue to welcome people into our country and into our homes.

Mark Isherwood AC: In your update on Ukraine statements before the summer recess, you spoke of the constructive working relationship you had with the then UK Government Minister for Refugees, Lord Harrington. And of course you've referred to him in your statement today also. When he resigned from this role earlier this month, Lord Harrington stated that the role was no longer required because a permanent system was now in place for arrivals, that the role was always meant to be temporary and that his work was essentially complete. He added that he would now take on a voluntary role helping refugees. How do you respond to his statement, based upon practical inter-governmental working requirements in Wales?
In this context, I understand that the new Minister for Migration in the Home Office, Tom Pursglove MP, has been responding to questions regarding the UK schemes for Ukrainian refugees. Does this tally with your understanding, given that you stated that you've written to, I think it was, the Secretary of State for levelling up and the new Home Secretary, in your statement? And if this does tally with your understanding, what engagement are you seeking with Tom Pursglove?
Following my introduction of Link International to you, I'm pleased that the charity and its Ukrainian link programme is working well with north Wales local authorities, in collaboration with other statutory agencies and Welsh Government, in bringing together community and faith groups and third sector organisations to support Ukrainians arriving in north Wales. When I attended a Link International barbecue for Ukrainian refugees in Conwy in July, I was told that in order to keep people as hosts under the Homes for Ukraine scheme and to stop people being moved on, additional support for the hosts would be needed, including support with winter fuel bills. When I wrote to you about this you replied that you were aware of the risk of sponsorships not continuing beyond six months because the hosts are unable to afford the rise in fuel costs. What discussions have you therefore had directly or are you planning to have with the UK Government, beyond correspondence, regarding a possible uplift to the monthly £350 payment to people hosting Ukrainians in their own homes?
During my visit to Conwy in July, the need for English for speakers of other languages, or ESOL, lessons, in person and online, and for action to support skill and qualification transferability—where refugees at the event included a doctor, a dentist, a paramedic, engineers, IT consultants, people with media and digital expertise and many others—were also emphasised to me. Further to your 9 August reply to me regarding these, I'd therefore be grateful for an update on these issues in the context of the devolved services for which the Welsh Government is responsible.
At the event in July, new arrivals were arriving in buses and I learned of people being placed in increasing numbers in emergency accommodation, hotels, schools, et cetera. At the St David's parliamentary prayer breakfast for Wales on 3 March, I sat next to someone working with the Ministry of Defence on sustainable modular housing solutions for Ukrainian refugees. What, if any, discussions are you having with the MOD about this for Walesfurther to my raising this with you before the summer recess?
Following the Polish Heritage Days event in the Senedd on 13 July, I sent you a document produced by the Polish Integration Support Centre, or PISC, in Wrexham, detailing their humanitarian efforts to help Ukrainian refugees and a proposal for consolidated and sustainable support for Ukrainian people, including construction of temporary housing. Further to our meeting last week—and I thank you for that—how will you therefore engage with them regarding this?
Finally, I received an e-mail from a constituent on a housing waiting list describing a situation that challenges my own understanding of arrangements in place. He asks, and I quote, 'Why is it that the Ukrainians are getting £500 a week, and some have moved out of a holiday park and got accommodation, and I’m still struggling?' What, therefore, is your understanding of the situation he describes, and how would you respond to him?

Jane Hutt AC: Thank you very much, Mark Isherwood. I think I made it very clear in my statement how important it was to have a Minister for refugees, Richard Harrington. Actually, we were meeting with him on a fortnightly basis; the job certainly wasn’t done. He played a very important role. He actually resigned the day before the leadership of the Conservative Party was announced, and I believe that his understanding, from the meeting we had only a week before—. He was actually going to come down to Wales; we had it in the diary. We were going to go and visit a welcome centre together. The job certainly isn’t done.
I am pleased to hear from my officials that, in terms of the role that was played and the important issues that we were raising with the then Minister for refugees, there is a recognition that that needs to be followed through. I would be very interested to see what reply we get from the Home Secretary and Simon Clarke, the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. I’m very happy to share the letter that we wrote, myself and Neil Gray. We reiterated the points that we were discussing. We paid tribute to Lord Richard Harrington for his commitment. We asked if there was going to be a UK Minister with portfolio responsibility, not just, I have to say—. In terms of his ministerial responsibility, it wasn’t just for Ukraine, it was for Afghan and Hong Kong welcome schemes as well. We'd very much welcome a dedicated Minister, and would support the appointment of a successor.
But we raised the issues—the financial issues, the real issues—that are now causing a great deal of concern. He called—and publicly, actually—for a doubling of the £350 monthly thank-you payment to hosts. We asked for an increase at least to £500, or up again, doubling to £700 per month. An urgent decision is needed regarding this, because the hosts now, as they reach the end of their six-month period—. That is beginning to start; we’re writing to all hosts to see if they will continue. This is a crucial issue. We asked for quick decisions, and I hope you—as I perhaps asked you last week when we had a briefing about this—and your colleagues will also urge for a quick decision on this funding package.
Also, in terms of the funding package, which we’ve raised on a regular basis, we have no information. And of course, the finance Minister has raised this as well about year 2, year 3. We have no funding for ESOL services from the UK Government, or indeed tariffs for health either—both, actually, that were provided to the Afghan resettlement scheme. I’ve had no contact from the immigration Minister about this, or any other responsibility in relation to refugees and migrants.
I look forward perhaps that maybe we might have some telephone calls from not only the Prime Minister but other Ministers to us in Government. It’s vital that we do actually engage with them and follow this through. There is a huge job of work to be done here. We’re taking responsibility in the way that I’ve outlined fully, and also funding not only our welcome centres, but also paying thank-you payments to hosts if they support a family who initially arrived in Wales under the Ukraine family scheme. That's not happening in England. The commitment that we're making is considerable. I hope everyone will join us today, saying that we need to press for those answers in terms of financial support.
You introduced me, in fact, Mark, to Link International in north Wales, a fantastic organisation. They're a key part our third sector network, which meets regularly with officials and with myself. They also, of course, link to all of the other voluntary groups, the WhatsApp groups now all over Wales that the Ukrainians are organising themselves, which is, of course, what we want to encourage. In fact, this coming weekend, they've organised an arts festival at the Sherman Theatre. I hope people will have seen that. I shall be speaking at the opening event. It's also being sponsored by key Welsh celebrities who are backing what they are doing. But it is important that the support from the third sector is recognised.
In terms of devolved services, I said in my statement that we are now meeting—. Well, I met throughout the whole summer with local government leaders, and we have work streams that run at official level on everything to do with the initial welcome, the move-on services. But we're meeting fortnightly at meetings chaired by the Minister for Finance and Local Government on Ukraine, because the local leadership is crucially important in terms of the provision of those devolved services. They are linked, of course, to the health service, to the third sector, ESOL, et cetera.
We did contact the MOD, and they had no accommodation available. There are many good examples of how authorities, universities, the third sector are coming forward, and, obviously, we would welcome anything else that came forward. But we followed that MOD contact—nothing at that point, or indeed now. But they are all coming together to make contributions. Also, I very much welcome the work that the Polish integration society has undertaken.
In terms of north Wales, we are very thankful to all the authorities in north Wales, all the third sector, to the universities as well, who are engaging, both Bangor and Glyndŵr. There is excellent work in terms of welcome and also, of course, those family hosts.

Sioned Williams MS: Thank you for your statement, Minister. It's chilling to think that the people of Ukraine have by now been subjected to the terror and obscenity of war for such a long period, and that, of course, has huge consequences for those who have been forced to flee their country. Our thoughts must also be with those in Russia who are bravely protesting against Putin's mobilisation policies. The human cost of this illegal war for all involved is unacceptable, and I want to echo your thanks for the organisations, bodies and households that have helped welcome those seeking sanctuary to Wales.
You rightly referenced the threat of homelessness in your statement. Positive Action in Housing, the refugee homelessness charity, is among many organisations who are highlighting the continuing and intensifying risk to refugees from homelessness. The pressures of the cost-of-living crisis, combined with the absence of comprehensive assessments, matching hosts and refugees under the Homes for Ukraine scheme, mean that a number of hosting arrangements are ending abruptly. Twenty-five per cent of sponsors have said they only wanted to provide accommodation for six months, according to an Office for National Statistics survey of over 17,000 hosts. As we know, the current rental market is increasingly competitive and the cost of deposits is enormous, which means Ukranians who have found their hosting arrangements ending or breaking down will be unlikely to be able to enter the private market.
You say you're meeting regularly with Welsh local government leaders, so what are the local authorities telling you regarding this issue, Minister? Do you have any figures on the number of hosting arrangements that have broken down or ended in Wales, leaving refugees at risk of homelessness? I'm glad you've renewed your appeals to the UK Government for increased support, but could we potentially allow our local authorities to become guarantors for Ukrainians faced with having to enter the rental market, or are there any other similar solutions within our devolved competencies if Westminster continues not to act? As the Welsh Government isn't willing at the moment to institute a ban on evictions this winter, Minister, do you accept we could see refugees also finding themselves homeless when hosts find themselves turned out due to the cost-of-living crisis?
Given the intense economic pressures, I'm glad to hear the Welcome Ticket scheme that allows refugees to travel for free on buses in Wales is to be renewed, as it was originally, of course, coming to an end this week. It's a shame that companies such as First Cymru were not informed about this by the Welsh Government, as they've stated on Facebook today that the scheme is ending, and there are no updates as yet on their social media. You say eligibility criteria has been updated. So, could you tell us what those changes are? Minister, has all this been communicated to refugees and those that are hosting them? It could lead to embarrassment and difficulties in travelling to work or educational settings for many refugees if the companies and their drivers, and, indeed, the refugees themselves, are unclear on this issue.
I'm also glad to hear you've raised the issue with the UK Government about the lack of support for students who have been forced to leave their country, but understandably want to complete their studies online with Ukrainian universities, especially, of course, given the terrible upheaval they've already faced. You'll remember, I hope, that I wrote to you on this very subject earlier this month, as a family in my region have sponsored a 19-year-old woman who is unable to access any financial support from the DWP or student finance as she is studying remotely for a degree in Kyiv university. While we're waiting for a response from the UK Government on that, and, indeed, while I await a response to my letter to you, what support can be offered to her?

Jane Hutt AC: Thank you very much. Diolch yn fawr, Sioned Williams. This is about our nation of sanctuary; how we work together, as we always have, to support those who are fleeing, as you say, the obscenity of war, the terror. I recall, right from the word go, Putin's aggression. We talked about Putin; we think also of the Russians who now are threatened and leaving Russia themselves. The human cost of war is where we step in to help and open the door.
I think it is very important to say that we're working flat out, and have all over the summer, with our housing authorities and, indeed, RSLs and the third sector, to support not only the initial welcome—. If you recall, way back, we said we thought we could take perhaps 1,000 in our supersponsor scheme; we've now got 2,700. Our welcome centres are all full to capacity and, of course, some have had to move on to the other functions that they play. But, of course, working with them, it's about how we move arrivals to longer term accommodation. But, of course, our accommodation is under significant pressure. It's not possible for everyone. Some who are moving on are going to new hosting arrangements. We're arranging matches to vetted hosts across Wales. And actually, there are thousands of Welsh households who are now in the process of being vetted to become hosts to those currently living in accommodation. You will see that we have been making an appeal to encourage people to come forward, because, actually, there has been a huge benefit and positive response from hosts.
But we've got to back them up with funding. That's why I thank you for supporting our call to address—. It is inadequate, the £350; it's got to be increased. And, of course, we would want those households to claim every benefit—the fuel support scheme, et cetera—that they are entitled to, because that will help with those. But it is important that we do not in Wales get into the position where we have homeless Ukrainian families as a result of this scheme. So, there are very imaginative programmes—going on to new hosts, extending hosting arrangements now, going on to new hosts from our welcome centres—but also this transitional accommodation that I described, the £65 million for transitional accommodation. And that includes a whole range of issues like repurposing empty buildings. Local authorities are really coming up with a whole range of ways in which we can support people, perhaps, from a welcome centre, or a host family, into that intermediate accommodation, and then on to other longer term accommodation.
It's very difficult in the private rented sector in terms of the rents. We have asked—. Again, this is unfinished business in terms of the UK Government—seriously unfinished business—in terms of us needing support, and an increase in the local housing allowance and discretionary housing payments, to enable people to be moved in and supported into private rented accommodation. So, we're working very hard with our housing authorities as well.
I'll just, perhaps, clarify that in terms of the transport announcement, we've been working hard to get this announcement for today, so it is news today, and I can assure you that we will get the eligibility criteria out as quickly as possible to ensure that Transport for Wales and bus companies across Wales, which did operate the free public transport—that we actually learn from the pilot and improve on it.We intend to extend the current scheme and minimise confusion or misinterpretation of eligibility. Just to clarify and put on the record: this is for all refugees and people on humanitarian visas in Wales; it includes anyone granted refugee status, humanitarian protection or a humanitarian visa. It is crucial that we get that message out; it will all be clearly communicated, and we will take that point about the transport providers, in terms of their websites, et cetera.
I want to just also comment on your point about access to education and higher education. This is particularly important in terms of the opportunities for the young people coming here. When we also hear from the UK Government, we'll be able to give you more clarity in terms of options, finance, et cetera. We've written to the Home Secretary, as you know, and the Secretary of State, and I'll share what we've said to them. But, universities are keen to offer refuge to academics and students, and we are working with Universities UK as well as Universities Wales. But, also, I have to say that Ukrainian students are maintaining relationships with their host institutions in Ukraine and are continuing to access online learning, but there are issues in terms of financial difficulties; that's why we've written to the UK Government in terms of student support and access to universal credit.
We've got the Council for At-Risk Academics and universities of sanctuary all over Wales, and certainly, we met the vice-chancellor of Wrexham Glyndŵr University, which is one example of tremendous support, when I was in Wrexham on Friday. There are twinning initiatives with Universities UK International, but also, we're very keen to look to further education as well; we've confirmed revised entry criteria for many schemes, including apprenticeship schemes. Diolch.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Minister, I welcome this update on Ukraine, as, indeed, I welcome the continuing commitment of the people of Wales and the Welsh Government to be a nation of sanctuary in actions as well as words for refugees and those fleeing conflict. Part of the way forward, as you've described this afternoon, is now finding many, many more hosts to open their homes so that we can move beyond the necessary, but initial, welcome-centre approach, and that's where I have a suggestion. Minister, you may be aware of the many informal groups across Wales, like Safe Haven Maesteg and the Bridgend Ukrainian support group, who've set up not only places to meet and to exchange information for Ukrainian families fleeing war and persecution, and for host families, but also to provide direct help and support too, with clothing, furniture, bikes, days out, English lessons and much more. In fact, the Counsel General, Mick Antoniw, visited with us the Maesteg support group only in the last couple of weeks, and I think you enjoyed your time there, as they enjoyed your visit as well and really appreciated it.
Now, I think that the host families involved in these groups would be a valuable resource, first-hand experience, for the Minister and her officials on what's worked well in becoming a host, what's been more tricky and how to encourage others to come forward as much-needed new hosts. These groups may also be a really good ally in spreading the message to others and helping support others on their journey to being a host. So, Minister, if you or your officials have any time and would like to come to meet the groups in Bridgend and Maesteg to sit down with them to discuss, both with the Ukrainians who are being hosted and also with the host families, what has worked, what's been difficult, so that we can encourage many, many more hosts to come forward. It's been heartwarming to see the response in Wales, but we now need that to be even larger and help people with the challenges they have in becoming host families, and make it easier for them.

Jane Hutt AC: I thank Huw Irranca-Davies very much for that suggestion, that proposal, but also just for your description of how these support groups—. And particularly in your community, you've told me about the Maesteg support group, but I think all across Wales, we have similar groups that are hosts and Ukrainians coming together. On Monday, I'm visiting a Ukraine centre in Cardiff, which was set up with hosts in Cardiff and Ukrainians, and this is being reflected all over Wales. I mentioned the arts festival that they're organising this weekend.
I did mention in my statement that we've funded Housing Justice Cymru to provide a host support service, so we must make sure that that is working—I'd like feedback on that. And that's the Housing Justice Cymru website, but I would very much like to—and I know that the Counsel General has visited—learn from our sponsors so that we can share that information. We have undertaken a sort of publicity campaign to get more hosts coming forward, and the best place to get that information is from other hosts who have found it successful. So, thank you very much. We will follow that through.

Mabon ap Gwynfor AS: I've got someone in my constituency who married into a Ukrainian family. He's got a Ukrainian wife and Ukrainian family still out in Ukraine, and he's been having trouble getting access to services and bringing the family back to Wales. I've got an e-mail that I'd like to read out to you from this individual, with a specific question at the end, please:
'Welsh Government advice, guidance and policy implementation fails to properly account for the circumstances of those arriving in Wales under the Ukraine family scheme. The Welsh Government supersponsor scheme is silent about family scheme members. To date, published advice only focuses on Homes for Ukraine scheme members. The Welsh Government professes to provide a wraparound service to all those seeking refuge in Wales. In my experience, it has fallen far short of this. Family scheme members are out on a limb and largely left to their own devices, irrespective of their particular needs and circumstances. No assessment is made of the capacity family members have to support their families: language abilities, house location, condition and size, financial capability, age of head of household, numbers of family members seeking refuge, their age, health needs, cultural change and adaptation. My family and I have struggled with issues to do with networking, legal requirements such as rights and responsibilities—'

You're out of time. Reading—

Mabon ap Gwynfor AS: Sorry, I'll just get to the question.

Yes, getting to the question would help, actually. Reading out a long e-mail is not an ideal use of scrutiny in this Senedd.

Mabon ap Gwynfor AS: I appreciate it. So, the question is: will the Welsh Government and Welsh local authorities now provide equivalent support to those seeking sanctuary in Wales, both under the Ukraine family scheme and the Homes for Ukraine scheme?

Jane Hutt AC: We would love to be able to have the same kind of support from the UK Government for the Ukraine family scheme, as they are providing for the Homes for Ukraine scheme. The UK Government has never given a penny towards the family scheme, as I'm sure, Mabon, you're aware. We've called for it. In fact, the former Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, in one of his last PMQs, actually said that he thought the Ukraine family scheme should get the same funding and support as the Homes for Ukraine scheme. It's never happened. We've asked the question again in this letter, so I would want to share that with you, Mabon, so that you can share with your constituent. But we actually have provided thank-you payments to people who are hosting Ukrainian families. It's all Welsh Government money; it's not UK Government, because they don't provide a penny. And also, the British Red Cross—£246,000—who are actually supporting Ukrainian families who are hosting family members under the Ukrainian family scheme. So I hope that we can now follow up this contact, Mabon, and make sure that we get this information and support to your family.

Thank you, Minister.

8. Statement by the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd: The Agriculture (Wales) Bill

The next item is a statement by the Minister for rural affairs on the Agriculture (Wales) Bill, and I call on the Minister to make the statement—Lesley Griffiths.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Diolch, Llywydd. Today, I am very pleased to introduce the Agriculture (Wales) Bill, together with its supporting documentation. The Bill is the result of years of policy work, co-design, consultation and stakeholder engagement. The result is an ambitious and transformational piece of legislation that reforms decades of EU farming support, heralding a significant change in how we support the agricultural sector here in Wales. It is the first Welsh agricultural Bill, the first time the Welsh Government has had the opportunity to bring legislation before the Senedd to legislate for our agricultural sector, and significantly, the Bill contains a modern and comprehensive definition of agriculture, reflecting agriculture in the twenty-first century.
As I have stated many times,I am immensely proud of the agricultural sector in Wales. This is the first made-in-Wales policy framework that recognises complementary objectives of supporting farmers to produce food sustainably, alongside taking action to respond to the climate and nature emergencies, contributing to thriving rural communities and keeping farmers on the land.

Lesley Griffiths AC: At the heart of the Bill lies the sustainable land management objectives, and the duty placed on the Welsh Ministers. This is embedded in four objectives that work to support the economic, environmental and social sustainability of our agricultural sector here in Wales. The objectives are: to produce foods and other goods in a sustainable manner; to mitigate and adapt to climate change; to maintain and enhance the resilience of our ecosystems; to conserve and enhance the Welsh countryside and culture, and promote and facilitate the use of the Welsh language; and they will contribute to achieving the well-being goals of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015.
The framework will enable Welsh Government to support our farmers and their contribution, not just as essential producers of food, but also as guardians of the land, ecosystems and culture of Wales. It will balance our food security with the actions desperately needed in the face of the declared climate and nature emergencies. At its core, sustainable land management works to ensure that our farmers continue to produce high-quality food and agricultural goods for generations to come.
To ensure that the steps we take have the effect they should, the Bill contains robust reporting and monitoring requirements. Working to track the progress towards achieving the four objectives through the use of indicators and targets, it will ensure accountability, transparency and oversight, as well as providing an important evidence base for future policy decisions. Through ensuring ongoing and robust opportunities for scrutiny, the reporting and monitoring provisions help to ensure that support and legislation works effectively for our Welsh agricultural sector, responding to challenges and encouraging innovation.
In July of this year, I announced outline proposals for the sustainable farming scheme. Whilst the proposed scheme will be the main source of future Government support for farmers in Wales, the Bill provides the framework on which all future agricultural support will be delivered. Our co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru stated that we would seek to work together on the longer term arrangements for Welsh agriculture, recognising the particular needs of family farms in Wales and acknowledging ecologically sustainable local food production. The Bill as introduced specifically includes the power for Ministers to provide support for the purpose of encouraging the production of food in an environmentally sustainable manner. Furthermore, today marks the beginning of the legislative journey of this Bill, and I can confirm that work is ongoing on further amendments to the Bill that we intend to publish jointly with Plaid Cymru during Stage 1.
This Bill enables Welsh Ministers to provide future support to the sector in a way that works for our farmers and our land in support of the sustainable land management objectives. It is a key mechanism in our approach to supporting farmers and the sector to produce food and other goods in a sustainable way. This will support this Government's environmental and climate commitments, as well as our agricultural sector and also the rural communities it plays an integral role within. Through the provisions in the Bill, I want to ensure that we can continue to support and encourage our farmers and producers to create and sustain a thriving agricultural sector.
As part of any good governance, regular monitoring and reporting is essential. The Bill ensures, for all support provided, there must be annual reports covering expenditure and periodic reporting to monitor and evaluate the impact of the support across the sector, as well as measuring against the purposes of support given in contributing to the SLM objectives. This will ensure value for public money and support that is adaptive to the needs of the sector.
The Bill will provide Welsh Ministers with the power to make regulations that provide tenants with a route to dispute resolution to ensure that agricultural tenants, for example, are not unfairly restricted from accessing financial assistance delivered under the power of support provisions in the Bill. The new process will provide an incentive for tenants and landlords to come to a negotiated agreement in order to avoid the costs of dispute resolution, whilst providing a legislative backstop and a means of resolution for those tenants who cannot reach a reasonable agreement with their landlord.
The Bill replaces the time-limited powers in the Agriculture Act 2020 for Welsh Ministers, including powers for Welsh Ministers to enable continuity of existing agricultural support, to collect and share data from the agricultural sector, and intervention in agricultural markets and marketing standards with which particular agricultural products must conform. The Bill also replaces time-limited powers for Welsh Ministers to make provision for carcass classification and to modify direct EU legislation relating to apiculture, marketing standards and carcass classification.
Following on from our programme of government commitment, I'm pleased to confirm the Bill also contains provisions to ban the use of snares and glue traps. It is important to note the significance of these provisions. Wales will be the first of the UK nations to completely ban the use of snares and glue traps. This is the culmination of many years of engagement on reducing harm and improving animal welfare. I'm now convinced a ban is the only way forward. Snares and glue traps are indiscriminate when it comes to the animals they capture. They are inherently inhumane for both target and non-target species and, as such, they are incompatible with the high standards of animal welfare that we strive for here in Wales.
The Bill also contains provisions to amend the Forestry Act 1967, enabling Natural Resources Wales to add conditions to amend, suspend or revoke felling licences, to prevent felling that would contradict other environmental legislation. This supports NRW in their essential work of managing our land and natural resources in a sustainable manner. I also want to take this opportunity to remind Members and their constituents that there is still an opportunity to help shape the proposed sustainable farming scheme. I encourage farmers to complete our co-designed survey, which is open until the end of October. This is a vital piece of work to ensure the scheme truly supports the agricultural sector in Wales.
Finally, Llywydd, I want to thank everyone who has given their time to work with us so far, whether it's one of the thousands of farmers who responded to our three consultations, those who worked with us through our first phase of co-design, or those who have kindly showed me around their farms and discussed their views and shared their expertise with me. I know farmers are facing many challenges, from climate change to new trade deals to increasing input costs brought about by the war in Ukraine. I also recognise they face some uncertainty around our proposals, especially around the payment rates attached to the proposed sustainable farming scheme. I've always called on the UK Government to ensure full replacement funding is provided to the sector, as was promised. This fundamental principle is reflected in the analysis that accompanies the Bill. This is a Bill that not only impacts on the agricultural sector but the whole of our great nation, from the food we eat to how it's been grown, harvested, stored and prepared for sale. For the first time, we have the chance to build a system of support and legislation that works for our farmers, our sector, our land and our people. Diolch.

Samuel Kurtz MS: I would like to begin by thanking the Minister for giving me advance sight of both her statement and the Agriculture (Wales) Bill, especially as she's had a very busy afternoon in the Chamber.
It is no understatement to say that this 45-page document, accompanied by the 475-page memorandum, represents the largest and most significant overhaul in agricultural policy since the birth of this institution. Having left the European Union, this is the first opportunity to have a Welsh born, Welsh bred agriculture Bill, a dedicated piece of legislation that seeks to reflect the unique nature of the industry. The last three years have played witness to a whole host of geopolitical events, from a global pandemic to the illegal invasion of Ukraine. Consistent throughout each of these incidents was the disruption caused to global supply chains. We must look to take the necessary action to protect, promote and provide for Welsh farmers, the agricultural industry, our rural communities and our environment right across Wales. We need to offer the industry stability and growth and take the right decision to put food security and sustainability at the heart of this Government's agenda.
As you highlighted in your statement, Minister, a key component within this framework legislation is the development of sustainable land management. Now, I am pleased to note that the objectives of the sustainable land management framework have moved away from framing sustainability within the narrow confines of the environmental debate alone, and, in fact, I welcome a renewed focus on the value and production of food, as per objective 1 within the SLM framework. This objective had not existed in previous iterations of this document, so this is a positive step in the right direction, and I hope it reflects an open and co-operative attitude to how this document will progress over the next several months. These objectives also coincide well with the objectives of Peter Fox's food Bill.
Despite this, I am disappointed that the remaining three objectives fail to recognise the broader economic importance of Welsh farming, particularly of our family-run farms. Indeed, Minister, you and I have had several discussions about the importance of the broader economic, social and cultural importance of Welsh farming, as the economic contribution of the individual farmer goes far beyond the farm gate. So, when we talk about Welsh farming as an industry, what we have is a community that contributes roughly £6 billion to Wales's economy, an industry that employs 17 per cent of this nation's total workforce. Yet, despite this, your four SLM objectives at present fail to recognise the wider economic importance of the industry. Given this, I'd be grateful to learn if the Minister agrees with me that equal emphasis should be placed on the delivery of economic, environmental, social and cultural SLM outcomes.
A holistic approach is key to the implementation of this agenda, but it does have to be sustained throughout the entire document. Unfortunately, for parts of this legislation, that isn't necessarily the case. As I've already detailed, the sustainable land management objectives state clearly their commitment to conserving and enhancing cultural resources, particularly in an attempt to sustain the Welsh language and promote and facilitate its use—fantastic—yet, in chapter 1 of this legislative document, there appears to be no reference to the Welsh language within the scope of your 11 key purposes, despite the reference to other key SLM objectives, such as food production, climate change and conservation of ecosystems. Given this, how do you intend to conserve and grow the Welsh language within the powers laid out in today's agriculture Bill?
Let's make no mistake: this is an ambitious legislative framework, which seeks to support a post-EU agricultural industry that is fit for the twenty-first century. 'Protect, promote and provide' are the three key markers that I will use to measure the value and suitability of the Bill and what it delivers. In the words of the FUW, Minister, 'We're halfway there', and, as we scrutinise and amend this legislation in the coming months, I look forward to playing a positive role in contributing to its evolution to secure the best possible deal for Welsh farmers, the industry and our countryside. Diolch, Llywydd.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you very much. I know you will absolutely play your part in taking this Bill forward. As I said, it's just the start of probably nearly a year process of taking the Bill through the Senedd, and I'm grateful for your supportive comments and the discussions that we've had previously.
I think it is fair to say that we've had three consultations going back to—I'm trying to think now—probably 2017, 2018. I'm not sure I agree with you around food production, because I was very keen, as were the farming unions and many farmers I met with, to see the word 'food' there throughout. We did have it right in the first consultation, in 'Brexit and our land', and I've been really pleased to build up on that. One of the issues was around did food have—could it be a market? Because it's got a market, then it couldn't be a part of the Bill in the way that was wanted, but I think officials have worked really, really hard to ensure that sustainable food production is part of sustainable land management and we have the Bill now in the form it currently is. So, I think it's fair to say that food has been there throughout it all.
Certainly, the issues around family farms—and you've raised this with me, as have Plaid Cymru, in the discussions we've had since the co-operation agreement, and I've said all along that if this and the scheme didn't work for farmers then it wouldn't work for anybody, would it? It's really important that it does. I did see the FUW's press release, but they've played a big part as well in helping me and officials with this Bill, as have the other farming unions.
I think you're right about the challenges that we face. When I think back to—. It has literally taken years to do this Bill, and I've been very fortunate to be there from the beginning, and when you look at the challenges that have come along: we've had a drought and then we had—. We had leaving the European Union, and then we've had the Ukraine war, we've had the pandemic—it's just been one challenge after the other and, right throughout that time, our farmers have been there making sure we've got food on our plates. So, I think it's really important that we help them with the challenges.
I think one of the issues—. We've found ourselves really in a position where we've had five years of confusion since we've left the European Union, and I think that has impacted greatly on our farm businesses. You mentioned stability and growth, and those are the two things that I really want to give the sector, and it is hard when you have all these challenges. I appreciate—and I made reference to it in my opening remarks—I appreciate that this is providing uncertainty, and it’s really important that we talk through this Bill with our farmers, and I am really grateful to so many of them for helping me with this. There are also opportunities, and I think that's what I want to come out of this Bill. Those opportunities are there too, and they need to be grasped.
In relation to the SLM objectives, I think, for me, sustainable land management incorporates the environmental, economic and social contribution of farmers to society in Wales. It's an internationally recognised concept and it’s something that we’ve built on. It's about encouraging the use of our land and our resources in a way that meets—. You need to balance, don't you, the current needs now and the future generations who are going to come behind. So, I do think it's there.
I’ve been working with Plaid Cymru, as part of the co-operation agreement, around the Welsh language, and I mentioned that we will be bringing forward further amendments at Stage 1.

Mabon ap Gwynfor AS: I thank the Minister for the statement. We live in an unprecedented time. The agriculture sector and the communities and the families associated with the sector are under extreme pressure and, more than anything else, they're looking for stability, while, at the same time, broader society is calling out for food security and affordability. The war in Ukraine, Brexit and COVID-19 have highlighted the fragility of the food supply chain. At the same time, the Government has set notable targets to ensure the growth of the Welsh language, and we all know that the agricultural sector is vital to sustaining the language and culture. And above all we have a deadly climate emergency, which is casting a shadow over everything. It's not an easy task therefore to maintain a balance between the different elements, but that's what we have to try to do. It's no overstatement, therefore, to say that the Bill that will be introduced will be a historical turning point, which will set the tone for agriculture in Wales for generations to come.
I was very concerned during the previous discussions that the Bill would not recognise the role of farmers in food production. After all, that's why farmers farm—they produce food for the rest of us so that we can be out working and don't have to be working the land. And I thank them for that, for their work. I therefore welcome that the encouragement of food production is a specific outcome in the support aims, and I will be looking in particular during the scrutiny of the Bill at how the Government intends to assess the security of our food supply. But I will be focusing my scrutiny on the first two sections. Those are the sections that set the foundations, after all. The Bill will succeed or fail depending on the content of those sections.
I welcome what the Minister has said about the further work that's been done with Plaid Cymru, and I look forward to seeing the further amendments that will be published.
Now, the explanatory memorandum says, in part 1, that it places a duty on Welsh Ministers to exercise certain functions in the way that they consider best contributes to the delivery of the sustainable land management objectives, to the extent that that is consistent with exercising that function appropriately. The question for us, therefore, is whether this gives too much power to the Minister. How will the Minister at the time determine what best contributes to the delivery of the SLM objectives? What will be the yardstick? It mentions three sustainability pillars—economic, social and environmental—therefore the role for us in scrutinising is to ensure that that balance is sustained and that one element doesn't outweigh the other elements. How does the Minister therefore propose that that will be done effectively? So, for example, the explanatory memorandum says that:
'Food production is a vital component of SLM, as part of the production of goods to meet human needs. A sustainable approach makes it possible for farms to produce positive environmental and social outcomes'.
Implicit in this statement is the emphasis placed on environmental needs, not necessarily food production needs. Is the balance right, therefore? That's the question for us as we start on our scrutiny, because there is a weighing scale here, isn't there? The objective is to ensure that it is balanced between the needs of food production and everything associated with that, economically and socially, and environmental needs. What assurance can the Minister give us that the Bill as introduced will strike the right balance on that scale?
The funding section is open-ended. It's a vital section, but there is very little meat on the bones. The work on that will happen in due course, of course, as regulations are laid. Therefore, I'd like to ask the Minister when she foresees that the details on funding and payments will be available to us in the Senedd and to the agricultural sector. And what assurance can she give us that we as a Senedd will have an opportunity to scrutinise those regulations in full when the time comes?
And to close, suffice to say that agriculture is of vital important to Wales, to our history, identity, language, economy and future. This Bill will mean either that we see the continuation of the small family farm in Wales or we see agriculture in Wales following the same path as it has in so many other countries, leading to large farms and intensive farming. The risk is high, therefore, and we have to ensure that the future of family farming in Wales continues for future generations, while these farms play their role fully in the battle against climate change. I greatly hope that this will be the destination of this journey, and I look forward to playing my part in that process.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Diolch, and again I look forward to working with you closely taking this Bill forward.
I'm going to start with your last bit around funding. You asked when you'll be able to scrutinise the funding elements of it. We're doing some economic analysis and modelling. That will be done for the rest of the course of this year and probably into early next year, so I would imagine it will be around spring of next year. There is huge uncertainty around funding, as you know. We'd been promised that we wouldn't lose a penny from the UK Government; we've seen that's not the case. But I just wish we could get some certainty from the UK Government. I go back to what Sam Kurtz was asking around stability and growth. It's really hard to offer stability. I've done my very best with keeping the BPS going, for instance, for a few more years than other parts of the UK were looking at, but it is very difficult to give that stability that I really would like to give, without knowing. And you will have seen the Scottish Government's announcements this week around the cutting of their agricultural Bill. It's not, I'm sure, where they would want to be; it's not where anybody would want to be. But, unfortunately, because of the lack of confirmation around the agricultural funding from the UK Government, it is very difficult to do that, but I hope that answers your question.
I think one of the things I've been really keen to avoid, and this came about early, at the start of the policy work around this piece of legislation, when I went to New Zealand, to talk to farmers there who remembered that cliff edge they had in 1984 when they stopped their basic payment scheme, and you saw the small farms that were just absolutely swallowed up by the large farms, and they lost that feeling of community, and of course they don't have the language to preserve that we do here in Wales. So, I was very clear right from the start that we had to protect those small family farms and not allow them to be swallowed up so that they lost that feel of community, and they saw rugby clubs disappearing because the farms weren't there to sustain them. So, that was very much part of early thinking in relation to the Bill.
I hear what you're saying about there being too broad powers, and there probably isn't a perfect answer I can give you, but it is about that balance. I think we need to have that flexibility to support the sector in the way that we do with stable policies, and I think the way to do that is the way that we've set out. The section you refer to around sustainable land management outcomes, they're referred to as purposes within the Bill and they absolutely reflect the SLM outcomes that support may be given for, and there's a list of support that can be provided. That's financial or otherwise, really, and that's what this Bill will enable Ministers to do, to provide that support for agriculture and ancillary activities in a way that that will then contribute to the sustainable land management objectives.
Of course, our main delivery mechanism will be the sustainable farming scheme. That's why it's really so important. I plugged it again today. Please make sure that as many people—constituents and farmers—please, help us with that co-design, because it needs to work for them.
I should say the list of purposes within the Bill seeks to meet the requirement that we are looking for, but the list of purposes isn't exhaustive. So, there's room for more there. I think that's everything.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Minister, can I just say 'congratulations', not just to you, but to all those who have helped bring it to this stage? This is a significant moment and, as a member of the Climate Change, Environment and Infrastructure Committee and the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee as well, we're looking forward to getting our teeth into a piece of legislation here in Wales, made in Wales, and really wrestling with this. And it's been a long journey to get here, and your doggedness is to be admired.
Can I just turn, Minister, because these things don't stand in isolation of the wider context of legislation and policy, both here and across the UK as well, quite interestingly? So, in response to the launch of the Welsh agricultural Bill, RSPB Cymru said that RSPB Cymru welcomes the new Welsh agriculture Bill, which will work for people, nature and climate. It'll help shape Welsh farming and the fate of Wales's wildlife for generations to come. They believe this is a big opportunity for Wales to secure a nature-positive future. There has been a real contrasting response this week in England. RSPB England responded to the scrapping of similar proposals in England, but also the environmental protections that were announced in the mini budget, saying,
'Make no mistake, we are angry. This Government has today launched an attack on nature. We don't use the words that follow lightly. We are entering uncharted territory.'
The reason this is important is because they turn to the issue of the EU retained legislation that is proposed and the intention there that they perceive of a levelling down, not just in England, but in Wales as well. Minister, I wonder if you could take those concerns on board. Should we be worried? Are RSPB rightly concerned that there may be—may be—an intent here for this bonfire of deregulation in England to extend that across Wales as well?

Lesley Griffiths AC: So, I haven't seen the detail of the announcement that came from DEFRA yesterday. I can't say I was surprised. Obviously, there has been a new Secretary of State; I think we can see a change in direction also with the Liz Truss Government. I think it's fair to say—I don't think I'm being unfair here—that they were the first out of the trap, really, with their ELMs and they were having some difficulty bringing them forward. So, I hear what environmental organisations are saying, and anything that takes away or detracts from the nature and climate emergencies that we're all facing is obviously an area of concern.
I do look forward to having a conversation. This legislation is Wales specific, made in Wales, bespoke for Wales and right for us. What England do is what England do, but of course I take a keen interest in what England are doing, and you know that we met regularly as four agricultural Ministers, and we've all shared the legislation we were bringing forward following our leaving the European Union. And so it does concern me, what I'm reading, but as I said I haven't the detail. Unfortunately, I've tried very hard to meet the new Secretary of State, but we've had a couple of cancelled meetings. But we do have a quadrilateral coming up next month and I look forward to hearing a little bit more detail around that.
Could I just say as well that I didn't answer Mabon—I knew I'd missed something out—on food security and food affordability? Of course, those two things—. Food security is writ large in the Bill and it's an area where we need to, again, as Huw Irranca-Davies was saying, work at a UK level on food security because it's such an integrated system. People are worried about food security, and I hope that this will reassure them, and of course affordability now, with the cost-of-living crisis. Again, going back to DEFRA, there was a bit of shrugging of the shoulders around the price of food going up. Why shouldn't farmers get the correct price for their food? And it was felt that maybe we should be looking at cheaper food. Well, for me, that's not the issue. I appreciate that people are going to the supermarket and looking for cheaper food because we're in a cost-of-living crisis, but for me it's really important that farmers get a fair price because, of course, they've got mortgages and they need to buy food and other things for their families too. So, I think, on food security, we've taken our time around food security in this, because again going back to the challenges that we face, the different challenges, it has brought food security right to the fore.

James Evans MS: It's really positive to see this legislation coming forward. It's a bit overdue, but I'm glad to see it's coming forward. One part of the Bill is about animal welfare, and in the explanatory memorandum points 7.514 to 7.531 set out actions and targets for the Welsh Government regarding what the Bill will do around TB, sheep scab, antimicrobial resistance, et cetera. Do you think, Minister, that the Bill goes far enough to actually help end TB in Wales, to end sheep scab in Wales and put that regulatory framework in place to help us get the highest animal welfare standards in the country?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. So, I think this is a framework Bill and I think it certainly supports those. Obviously, we’ve got specific schemes and initiatives around ending sheep scab and TB. I’m pleased with the progress we’re making on TB, but of course, we have those sort of hotspots that we really need to get to grips with, and I was very pleased we had the event at the Pembrokeshire show—which I think Sam chaired—around that, because that’s clearly an area of concern in Pembrokeshire. And sheep scab, again, is something that I think we need to work very closely with the industry to eradicate, and I think the industry have shown some real leadership in relation to sheep scab and we will continue to work there.
So, as I said in my answer to Mabon, the powers are very broad, but I think they’re there to help support other schemes and initiatives as well.

Carolyn Thomas AS: I’d like to start by welcoming this statement and the fact that Wales is the first country in the UK to introduce a complete ban on snares and glue traps. I’m also pleased to see the introduction of an objective to promote public access to the countryside. Will the Minister please confirm for me that compliance with right of way maintenance will be a core part of the scheme, and to set out how the scheme will help encourage engagement with public rights of way officers and ramblers, who help maintain them? Thank you.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you and thank you for your comments. Access to the countryside has just come back into my portfolio. It was with me previously, and it’s an area that I’m looking forward to having some discussions on, to see how again we can—. Going back to what James Evans was saying, this Bill will have the powers to help us with that, so those are conversations that I haven’t had as yet, but I will have as we take the Bill forward.

Jane Dodds AS: Good afternoon again, Minister. Three very quick questions from me: we welcome this Bill and I look forward to working across parties in order to see this Bill go through. The first question is really around food production. Is it now defined as a public good for farmers, and will they receive that basic payment?
The second issue is with regard to the 10 per cent tree cover. Would you consider including hedgerows within that 10 per cent tree cover? I know it’s been a particular issue.
And finally, nitrate vulnerable zones: a really important issue and one that I know is on the lips of almost every farmer that I speak to. Could you explain how water pollution regulations will sit in relation to the agriculture Bill as set out today?
Finally, I do thank you for your statement. I look forward to further opportunities to work with you and across the Siambr as well to create the best system for our farmers, which rewards farmers for public goods and ensures an economically viable future for this sector. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you much and I look forward to working with you as well, across the Chamber, on this Bill. I think it’s really important that we all do work together, because none of us have all the ideas, so it’s great when we can come together and work for a common aim.
In relation to food production, I’ll go back to what I was saying before, and the phrase I was trying to think of was 'public good'. So, that was one of the difficulties, that because food has a market, it couldn’t be classed as a public good, so the way we’ve got around it is making sure that that food production is sustainable, and that will be part of the scheme.
We’re looking at hedgerows, so hedges and edges; we’re certainly looking at including those in the 10 per cent cover, along with what’s already there, as well as new hedges and edges.
I hate hearing the word 'NVZ'. They are no longer. We’ve got the agricultural pollution regulations and, obviously, they are a very important part of the work that we do with the agricultural sector. As you know, we’re looking at how we deploy those regulations now as part of the co-operation agreement with Plaid Cymru. I think it’s really important that we act now, because we are still having a number of substantive agricultural pollution incidents every week, which is not what any of us would want to see.
So, again, it’s about making sure that we look at all the schemes that we have in relation to agriculture and making sure that the Bill—as a framework Bill, and then hopefully it will become an Act—ensures that we can support the agricultural sector in the way we would want to.

Joyce Watson, finally.

Joyce Watson AC: Diolch, Llywydd, and I’m going to speak to welcome the inclusion of the ban on snares and glue traps, and the fact that Wales will be the very first nation to completely ban them. As you know, I've spoken on this many times. I'm really pleased, Minister, that you have listened to the wider audience here that has maintained that this is inhumane and arrived at the same decision yourself that it's unnecessary and it's completely incompatible with high standards of animal welfare. I will, of course, mention many other things as the Bill goes through, but, for now, I just want to thank you for putting that there. Thank you.

Lesley Griffiths AC: I thank Joyce Watson for those comments. This is a culmination of years of work. I don't think we should underestimate the number of years we've tried to work with snare users to reduce harm and improve welfare. But, as you say, snares are indiscriminate with regard to the animals they capture. They can capture badgers, they can capture otters, dogs, cats, and they are inherently inhumane for both the target and the non-target species. So, I do think it is right that we include them in this Bill.

I thank the Minister.

9. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Arts and Sport, and Chief Whip: World Heritage in Northwest Wales

Item 9 is postponed until 4 October, and that brings today's proceedings to a close.

The meeting ended at 17:46.

QNR

Questions to the First Minister

Mark Isherwood: How does the Welsh Government ensure that there are sufficient accessible toilets in Wales?

Mark Drakeford: Local Toilets Strategies are currently being reviewed, and set out how Local Authorities intend to meet their communities’ need for toilets, including accessible toilets and Changing Places. Where building work is undertaken in publicly accessible buildings, Part M (Access to and use of buildings) sets the provision for accessible toilets.

Buffy Williams: What discussions has the Welsh Government had with charities, community groups and the voluntary sector across Wales regarding the cost-of-living crisis?

Mark Drakeford: The cost of living has been discussed at the Third Sector Partnership Council and with Third Sector Support Wales which is made up of WCVA and the 19 county voluntary councils across Wales meeting in May. Our Cost of Living Summits have also included a range of third sector stakeholders.